Re: Liability & responsibility of electrician?

[krw]

The player pianos I've repaired in the '70s all used piano rolls.

Or somewhat later, floppy disks and CDs. ;-)

 

[life imitates life]

only legal for him to do so if a homeowners permit is pulled

Some jurisdictions do not even have any such animal as a "homeowner's
permit".

In Ohio, for example, I would have to get a "building permit" to make
an add on to my structure or to add a permanent building on my property.

I do not know, however, what the requirements are for any electrical
work done in said project.

Regardless, to be legal, ALL has to be inspected.

 

[Mycelium]

Except for asbestos abatement work, ALL construction work in New York is
regulated at the local level.
No state statute applies.

Can you name a locality in New York, however, that has no license
requisite for electrical power installation projects?

You see, this is not about electrical work. It is about FIRE safety,
and the proximity of assets that do not belong to you, like your next
door neighbor.

So you do not need a license to throw a rope over a tree in your front
yard and hanging yourself, but you DO need one (in some shape or form)to
do an installation of a product of device which could result in the
harming of others, such as the resultant fire that is possible with
improperly installed electrical power circuit wiring.

 

[Mycelium]

City of Davis, Yolo County, California.

I drew up plans, got them stamped and approved
by the city planning department, pulled 6-3 cable
from a 50 ampere breaker in the outside service
entrance panel to the garage where I installed a
subpanel, then installed lamps, 120 outlets and
240 outlets out of the subpanel. Before covering
anything, I called the city building inspector
and he came out, compared it to the drawing and
signed it all off. He said that I must have done
it myself because it was too neat for an electrician.

Disclaimer - I am not a licensed electrician, but
I can read the code and do neater work than one.

Good appearances are great, but one would hope that you are aware that
what really matters is how well each and every termination was performed.

The neat routing and good appearance lends toward that knowledge, and
normally indicates a strong and 'proper' training at some point of some
degree, like prior exposure to military cabling, wiring, and routing
techniques or the like.

If you have no training at all and did things that well, such that the
inspector made that comment, then I would say that you have lived your
entire life as a very observant creature that catches all the details of
practically any system you encounter, be it mechanically oriented or
otherwise.

 

[Mycelium]

You make no sense, then. Hexadecimal is a special case, or expression
of binary. Paper tape is binary, at least in most senses.

Paper tape is absolutely binary. Unless you live in Florida, then, it
is tri-state, depending on the 'chad factor'.

 

[Thomas]

Jim Stewart wrote:

He said that I must have done

it myself because it was too neat for an electrician.

Disclaimer - I am not a licensed electrician, but
I can read the code and do neater work than one.

Exactly. I have a copy of NFPA 70, NEC 2008. I may not be licensed
either, but as you so eloquently put it, I can read the code. I can also
do MUCH neater work than a licensed electrician. This is mainly because
I don't work balls to the wall on my own house, but rather take that
extra bit of time and do it right, and do it neat.

I take the time to properly plan out the job, be it electrical,
plumbing, structural, etc. Remember the Seven Ps.

Again, JCBD has ZERO problems with my NOT being the owner of the
property and my NOT being licensed in any trade.

Thomas

 

[krw]

Paper tape is absolutely binary.

Depennds on how you define (or look at) things. This one can be argued
either way (as can hexadecimal/binary).

Unless you live in Florida, then, it is tri-state, depending on the 'chad factor'.

....and MN is chadless.

 

[life imitates life]

Or somewhat later, floppy disks and CDs. ;-)

ALL platter based storage.

What it has morphed into to one degree are the UID variant of barcodes
and the like for small datagrams. Large data sets require more surface
area though.

I wonder what the current areal density for bits per square inch of
hard drive track is now. IBM used to have the record, but they do not do
MR head technology or hard drives any more as Hitachi bought that
division.

The perpendicular write mode is amazing in how much can fit even in a
tenth of an inch. Many, many megabits.

 

[Mycelium]

Depennds on how you define (or look at) things. This one can be argued
either way (as can hexadecimal/binary).


...and MN is chadless.

The individual holes are binary, hence the term 'absolute'.

Of course a string of holes can be referred to as a 'word' or 'byte' or
whatever one wishes, and the entire area can be sectored off in some
manner or not, but the most base element is on or off, hole or no hole.

 

[life imitates life]

Depends on where you are. There are jurisdictions that have no permitting,
licensing, or inspection requirements.

I would think that such conditions are based on nearest proximity of
assets that belong to others.

 

[[email protected]]

You make no sense, then. Hexadecimal is a special case, or expression
of binary. Paper tape is binary, at least in most senses.


I doubt that function is (user) programmable, so not in any way C*C.

Definitely controlable if you are laser etching 3-D.

 

[Steve W.]

Can you name a locality in New York, however, that has no license
requisite for electrical power installation projects?

For construction a State license is required for Asbestos Abatement.
All other construction licensing is done at the local level (county/town).
Businesses must register with the Secretary of State to obtain a tax number.

Most of the towns do NOT issue ANY licenses, they simply have an
inspector who comes in once you are finished to make sure it's OK.
You file a building permit with as much detail as they ask for. Then go
to work. Before you close in the plumbing or electric you contact the
inspector and schedule a time for them to drop by. Depending on the
inspector they may actually show up!

http://www.dos.state.ny.us/lcns/listoflncs.htm
lists ALL of the licensed occupations in NY.

You see, this is not about electrical work. It is about FIRE safety,
and the proximity of assets that do not belong to you, like your next
door neighbor.

I know quite a bit about fire safety and fire investigation and true
electrical fires (relating to the actual wiring in the building/home
being the actual cause) are VERY low on the list of causes.

So you do not need a license to throw a rope over a tree in your front
yard and hanging yourself, but you DO need one (in some shape or form)to
do an installation of a product of device which could result in the
harming of others, such as the resultant fire that is possible with
improperly installed electrical power circuit wiring.

Not in 99% of New York you don't. Only in the larger cities do you see
that.

 

[Mycelium]

I know quite a bit about fire safety and fire investigation and true
electrical fires (relating to the actual wiring in the building/home
being the actual cause) are VERY low on the list of causes.

Tell that to the patrons of the Beverly Hills Supper Club.

Oh... that's right... you can't.

 

[krw]

The individual holes are binary, hence the term 'absolute'.

It is a character device, so there is no "'absolute'".

Of course a string of holes can be referred to as a 'word' or 'byte' or
whatever one wishes, and the entire area can be sectored off in some
manner or not, but the most base element is on or off, hole or no hole.

The reader is a character device.

 

[krw]

ALL platter based storage.

What it has morphed into to one degree are the UID variant of barcodes
and the like for small datagrams. Large data sets require more surface
area though.

Actually, they fit more in a smaller area. It's been that way for
some time.

I wonder what the current areal density for bits per square inch of
hard drive track is now. IBM used to have the record, but they do not do
MR head technology or hard drives any more as Hitachi bought that
division.

This data is pretty easy to find, if you're so inclined.

 

[Rich.]

So where does that say that what he did was illegal?

You're kidding, right!?? Did you read the part about "I am the property
owner of the property described on the attached" or "State law requiring
construction to be performed by licensed contractors" or "The building or
residence must be for your own use or occupancy. It may not be built or
substantially improved for sale or lease."

Allow me to spell it out for you. The work has to be done by licensed
contractors, unless you are the homeowner doing the work, will be living
there, and the property will not be rented for at least 2 years.

 

[Rich.]

HELLOOOOOOOOO!!

"unless you are the homeowner doing the work" -- wasn't that exactly what
he
said?

He said he was a renter (tenant) at the property, unlicensed, and claimed to
have legally done a 400-amp service change for the property owner. It was I
that said you're supposed to be a licensed contractor or the actual
homeowner to legally do the work.

 

[Rich.]

He was living there, though. They likely didn't ask if he was buying
it. If the owner was ok with it, why would they care?

We're talking about the legalities, not whether or not one of the 'good ole
boys' is going to look the other way.

 

[Jim Stewart]

I would think that such conditions are based on nearest proximity of
assets that belong to others.

You might think that. I'd be inclined to think
that it has something to do with the influence of the
electrician's union in the particular jurisdiction...

 

[Thomas]

He said he was a renter (tenant) at the property, unlicensed, and
claimed to have legally done a 400-amp service change for the property
owner. It was I that said you're supposed to be a licensed contractor or
the actual homeowner to legally do the work.

That is correct: I rent the house.

Now for the surprise: the inspector from JCBD that serves my area
admitted to me that he knew little of the requirements for residential
electrical installations as specified in the IRC (which contains the NEC
verbatim).

Erm, if you don't know what the codes requires for residential service
equipment, then how can you honestly say the service is installed
correctly? Sheesh, I know more about the NEC than the inspector!!
(What's wrong with this picture???)

BTW, all wiring is installed in conduit, be it EMT, FMC, RNC, and the
like. WHY? I was given several THOUSAND feet of THHN (#14 to #6) in
lengths from 20' to 100' (scrap, basically). 1/2" EMT is around 25 cents
a foot. With THHN, I can safely install nine #12s in one 1/2" EMT, for 4
_completely independent_ 20A circuits (4 phase conductors, 4 grounded
conductors, and one grounding conductor). (Now how may licensed
RESIDENTIAL electricians are able to properly install EMT?)

FWIW: I worked under a licensed master for ~3 years as an electricians
apprentice. I still regret not getting my journeyman's back then.

Thomas