Power832 PGM output setup

[Guest]

Hi all,

I am struggling to make sense of the PGM outputs on this system. I have the
main board, with the expander board (PC5208) so all in all I have 10
programmable outputs.

What I need is to
(a) have each of the outputs triggerd for a different reason. So #1 on a
burglary, #2 on a panic event, #3 on a holdup event, etc.
(b) have each output inverted.

So... the only way I can see to do this is to set for a particular output,
say PGM 03 is set [010], PGM03 to a "latched sstem event strobe" and then I
have th options under [143] where I toggle "Panic" to be on. But now I
cannot invert the output.

Alternatively,
I make [010] a "(01) Burglary and Fire bell output" and then I can invert it
on [143] by toggling "true" to off.

But I cant seem to get both........help?

Thanks
Michael

 

[anomynous]

Hi all,

I am struggling to make sense of the PGM outputs on this system. I have the
main board, with the expander board (PC5208) so all in all I have 10
programmable outputs.

Ummmmmm, The 5208 is not a PGM output board, it's a zone expander.

What I need is to
(a) have each of the outputs triggerd for a different reason. So #1 on a
burglary, #2 on a panic event, #3 on a holdup event, etc.
(b) have each output inverted.

So... the only way I can see to do this is to set for a particular output,
say PGM 03 is set [010], PGM03 to a "latched sstem event strobe" and then I
have th options under [143] where I toggle "Panic" to be on. But now I
cannot invert the output.

Alternatively,
I make [010] a "(01) Burglary and Fire bell output" and then I can invert it
on [143] by toggling "true" to off.

But I cant seem to get both........help?

Thanks
Michael

 

[Guest]

Ok, ok, ok, sorry, it is indeed the PC5108. Problem remains though.

So is the only way to get the source of the alarm trigger, on the PGM
outputs, in an inverted manner, is to set the options to 10 and then use a
relay board?

Is there not another option that I could use that would allows me to invert
the output, and still see the source of the trigger on thePGM output?

Thanks
Michael

 

[Guest]

Anyone got a picture of this DSC RM-1?

 

[Frank Olson]

No picture of the RM-1 but here's a diagram of how it works. I also have
some helpful information on fire alarm systems, mostly from NFPA72 and NEC,
in my FAQ website (URL below).

Typical... You provide information on a subject the OP never even asked
about... Then you compound the error by providing *completely erroneous*
information... The RM-1 *is not* an EOL power supervision relay and cannot
be used as such. The *RM-2* is *designed (and intended for use) as* an EOL
power supervision module. In most cases it also needs to be used with a
PRM-4W Polarity Reversal Module to ensure the sounders on all the four wire
smoke alarms used on the system activate when one (or the heat detector in
your diagram) goes into alarm... If anyone needed further proof that your
knowledge of alarm systems doesn't even qualify you as an installer (or
service technician) Robert, they need look no further... How many of your
customers installed their fire detectors in accordance with the instructions
you diagramed here? I'd suggest you should "stick to selling parts", but
that would be a disservice equal to the unqualified "instruction" you *say*
you provide through your "FWA's" (Frequently Wrong Answers)... I would also
not normally provide public correction to one of your FAQs but considering
it has to do with life safety I didn't want some poor DIYer duped into
thinking you have either knowledge or experience *in the trade* and winding
up in a "world of hurt"...

Frank Olson
http://www.yoursecuritysource.com

 

[Guest]

Yep, I'm afraid that little sketch has nothing to do with my question.

The reason for my inverting the PGM outputs is that the panel is by default
a common ground, with postivie pulses doing the switching. However the RF
transmitter to be connected to the PGM outputs is the other way round... a
common 12v with negative pulses.

 

[A.J.]

The PGM output will never give you a positive switching output directly no
matter what you do.

You may want to see if you can invert the input on your RF transmitter via
jumper setting or programming. What kind of RF transmitter are you using
anyway ?

Connect a pull-up resistor (I use 5.6K) from +12V to PGM, then connect PGM
to your RF transmitter input, program your RF transmitter 's channel to
inverted input. I have used PGM output to trigger Alamnet Radio and Uplink
in this fashion inorder to supervise the connection between the main control
panel and the backup transmitter.

If you do not have such option with your RF transmitter, just put a SPDT
relay between the two and you can have it anyway you like. But then if the
wire is damaged between the two, you will never get an alarm from the RF
transmitter ever.

For the panic, assuming you are using NC circuit without EOL supervision, it
is really straight forward to have a + switching output to the RF
transmitter. Connect a wire between the zone terminal directly to the RF
transmitter input, whenever the loop is open, the zone terminal will go
high.

 

[Guest]

The PGM output will never give you a positive switching output directly no
matter what you do.

I thought that was what the True / Inverted attribute was for in section
[143].

You may want to see if you can invert the input on your RF transmitter via
jumper setting or programming. What kind of RF transmitter are you using
anyway ?

The RF transmitter is manufactured by SFK electronics here in SA I think. It
is called an "Informer 515X"
I have opened it, and nope... no jumpers for any settings at all. And as for
reprogramming... well the radio belongs to ADT, and I'm not messing with
that.

Connect a pull-up resistor (I use 5.6K) from +12V to PGM, then connect PGM
to your RF transmitter input, program your RF transmitter 's channel to
inverted input. I have used PGM output to trigger Alamnet Radio and Uplink
in this fashion inorder to supervise the connection between the main control
panel and the backup transmitter.

If you do not have such option with your RF transmitter, just put a SPDT
relay between the two and you can have it anyway you like. But then if the
wire is damaged between the two, you will never get an alarm from the RF
transmitter ever.

The relays don't really sound like that elegant a solution to me. Here is
what the radio looks like... it has the coax aerial connector and a terminal
block with pins CAC, -, +, 1...7. The CAC is connected to the ac supply from
the PSU, so the radio knows when there is a power failure. The - & + are the
regular 12V supply. Then pins 1 thru 7 act as switches. To send a panic
signal to ADT, I just short + to pin 2, for medical I short + to pin 7 and
so on.

Now on the old Power8 there were 4 PGM outputs. The installer inserted a
small circuit board (containing some diodes, transistors, and resistors)
directly onto the PGM output terminal block. It also has a separate line
running to the AUX + terminal. On the output side, this little board has a
terminal block, from where the wires run to the RF transmitter. I have put a
voltmeter onto all the terminals and confirmed it's operation. When the PGM
output is sitting at 0v, the little board is sitting at 12V, and vice versa.
The little board is a 4-in & 4-out, so I call it a "4 channel inverter"

On the Power832, with the expander board (I'm not quoting part numbers this
time chaps), I have 10 outputs. This means that I can make use of all 7
channels on the RF transmitter. But no-one I know sells "the little board",
let alone a "8 channel inverter". At this moment I am probably going to just
copy the design and make my own.

For the panic, assuming you are using NC circuit without EOL supervision, it
is really straight forward to have a + switching output to the RF
transmitter. Connect a wire between the zone terminal directly to the RF
transmitter input, whenever the loop is open, the zone terminal will go
high.

Nope, I am using a NC circuit with EOL supervision. The panic is just
another zone on my panel, programmed as a "24hr Panic". This way I figure it
is managed and also part of the event log. I am also able to make some
panics silent and others audible.

 

[A.J.]

I would suggest you leave the connection to ADT instead. The invert function
of the PGM does not invert the output, it inverts the state of the common
collector output.

E.G., if it is normal, the PGM is floating, and switches to ground when
activated. When using the invert function, the PGM is normally grounded and
switches to floating when activated. And yes, by using a pull-up resistor,
you can achieve a positive switching output to trigger your RF transmitter.
But why bother ? ADT should be able to program the RF transmitter to trigger
on negative switching input.

The PGM output will never give you a positive switching output directly no
matter what you do.

I thought that was what the True / Inverted attribute was for in section
[143].

You may want to see if you can invert the input on your RF transmitter via
jumper setting or programming. What kind of RF transmitter are you using
anyway ?

The RF transmitter is manufactured by SFK electronics here in SA I think. It
is called an "Informer 515X"
I have opened it, and nope... no jumpers for any settings at all. And as for
reprogramming... well the radio belongs to ADT, and I'm not messing with
that.

Connect a pull-up resistor (I use 5.6K) from +12V to PGM, then connect PGM
to your RF transmitter input, program your RF transmitter 's channel to
inverted input. I have used PGM output to trigger Alamnet Radio and Uplink
in this fashion inorder to supervise the connection between the main control
panel and the backup transmitter.

If you do not have such option with your RF transmitter, just put a SPDT
relay between the two and you can have it anyway you like. But then if the
wire is damaged between the two, you will never get an alarm from the RF
transmitter ever.

The relays don't really sound like that elegant a solution to me. Here is
what the radio looks like... it has the coax aerial connector and a terminal
block with pins CAC, -, +, 1...7. The CAC is connected to the ac supply from
the PSU, so the radio knows when there is a power failure. The - & + are the
regular 12V supply. Then pins 1 thru 7 act as switches. To send a panic
signal to ADT, I just short + to pin 2, for medical I short + to pin 7 and
so on.

Now on the old Power8 there were 4 PGM outputs. The installer inserted a
small circuit board (containing some diodes, transistors, and resistors)
directly onto the PGM output terminal block. It also has a separate line
running to the AUX + terminal. On the output side, this little board has a
terminal block, from where the wires run to the RF transmitter. I have put a
voltmeter onto all the terminals and confirmed it's operation. When the PGM
output is sitting at 0v, the little board is sitting at 12V, and vice versa.
The little board is a 4-in & 4-out, so I call it a "4 channel inverter"

On the Power832, with the expander board (I'm not quoting part numbers this
time chaps), I have 10 outputs. This means that I can make use of all 7
channels on the RF transmitter. But no-one I know sells "the little board",
let alone a "8 channel inverter". At this moment I am probably going to just
copy the design and make my own.

For the panic, assuming you are using NC circuit without EOL

supervision,

it
is really straight forward to have a + switching output to the RF
transmitter. Connect a wire between the zone terminal directly to the RF
transmitter input, whenever the loop is open, the zone terminal will go
high.

Nope, I am using a NC circuit with EOL supervision. The panic is just
another zone on my panel, programmed as a "24hr Panic". This way I figure it
is managed and also part of the event log. I am also able to make some
panics silent and others audible.