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polarization of light and power factor

J

JosephKK

Hi,

You can have a linear polarized wave without a circular polarized wave,
but can't have a circular polarized wave without it being composed of
linear polarized waves, so the linear polarized wave is the fundamental
type of wave.

I received this email from an antenna expert showing this geometrically:



examples A and B generate circularly polarized waves using two linear
polarized waves, and example C can be thought of as emitting a very high
number of linear polarized waves each offset by a small angle depending
on the helical antenna diameter and turn pitch. So you can take a
circular polarized wave and see how it is made of linear polarized
waves, but can you take a linear polarized wave and see how it is made
of circular polarized waves? Espeically since linear polarized waves
are much more common in nature I think they are the fundamental type of
wave, and all other types are superpositions of linear waves.

cheers,
Jamie
Actually, it turns out that vertical and horizontal (linear)
polarizations are duals, mathematically and physically, of CW and CCW
circular polarizations.
See also 1/4 wave plate in optics.
 
J

Jamie Morken

<snip>

Or you can perform the exact same procedure using the endfire helical, or
phase shift / space shift orthogonals, and generate linear polarization
back again. So by applying your argument again (almost sounds....circular
;) ), you've just proven that circular is also the fundamental type of
wave. ;-)

Tim

Hi,

I'm not sure if you can go from circular to linear polarization with
helical antenna's? The geometry is a bit hard to visualize.

One thing that makes linear polarization more fundamental than circular
polarization is that it gives a simpler explanation that circular
polarization can provide. Apparently there are no strong natural
sources of circular polarized light, or in other words, 99.9%+ of all
known light appears to be linearly polarized. So if you want to believe
that circularly polarized light is the fundamental type of light, then
how is the circular polarized light converted to linear polarized light
99.9%+ of the time?

cheers,
Jamie
 
J

Jamie Morken

Hi,

You can have a linear polarized wave without a circular polarized wave,
but can't have a circular polarized wave without it being composed of
linear polarized waves, so the linear polarized wave is the fundamental
type of wave.

I received this email from an antenna expert showing this geometrically:



examples A and B generate circularly polarized waves using two linear
polarized waves, and example C can be thought of as emitting a very high
number of linear polarized waves each offset by a small angle depending
on the helical antenna diameter and turn pitch. So you can take a
circular polarized wave and see how it is made of linear polarized
waves, but can you take a linear polarized wave and see how it is made
of circular polarized waves? Espeically since linear polarized waves
are much more common in nature I think they are the fundamental type of
wave, and all other types are superpositions of linear waves.

cheers,
Jamie
Actually, it turns out that vertical and horizontal (linear)
polarizations are duals, mathematically and physically, of CW and CCW
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From: "JosephKK"<[email protected]>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: polarization of light and power factor
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 22:16:25 -0700
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Hi,

You can have a linear polarized wave without a circular polarized wave,
but can't have a circular polarized wave without it being composed of
linear polarized waves, so the linear polarized wave is the fundamental
type of wave.

I received this email from an antenna expert showing this geometrically:



examples A and B generate circularly polarized waves using two linear
polarized waves, and example C can be thought of as emitting a very high
number of linear polarized waves each offset by a small angle depending
on the helical antenna diameter and turn pitch. So you can take a
circular polarized wave and see how it is made of linear polarized
waves, but can you take a linear polarized wave and see how it is made
of circular polarized waves? Espeically since linear polarized waves
are much more common in nature I think they are the fundamental type of
wave, and all other types are superpositions of linear waves.

cheers,
Jamie
Actually, it turns out that vertical and horizontal (linear)
polarizations are duals, mathematically and physically, of CW and CCW
circular polarizations.
See also 1/4 wave plate in optics.

Hi,

Thanks for the link, the explanation at wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_plate

The crystal's geometry has a different refractive index for vertical
polarized light as compared to horizontal polarized light, which can
create circularly/elliptically polarized light as the linearly polarized
light is phase shifted a different amount depending on if it is
vertically or horizontally polarized.

If the light sent through the crystal is composed of either vertical or
horizontal polarized light, then there will be no change in the
polarization.

cheers,
Jamie
 
J

Jamie Morken

Actually, it turns out that vertical and horizontal (linear)
polarizations are duals, mathematically and physically, of CW and CCW
circular polarizations.
See also 1/4 wave plate in optics.


Hi,

Thanks for the link, the explanation at wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_plate

The crystal's geometry has a different refractive index for vertical
polarized light as compared to horizontal polarized light, which can
create circularly/elliptically polarized light as the linearly polarized
light is phase shifted a different amount depending on if it is
vertically or horizontally polarized.

If the light sent through the crystal is composed of either vertical or
horizontal polarized light, then there will be no change in the
polarization.

cheers,
Jamie
 
T

Tim Williams

Jamie Morken said:
One thing that makes linear polarization more fundamental than circular
polarization is that it gives a simpler explanation that circular
polarization can provide. Apparently there are no strong natural
sources of circular polarized light, or in other words, 99.9%+ of all
known light appears to be linearly polarized. So if you want to believe
that circularly polarized light is the fundamental type of light, then
how is the circular polarized light converted to linear polarized light
99.9%+ of the time?

It seems to me 99% of light is not polarized at all -- black body
radiators don't care, for instance. I don't know that any other primary
physical phenomena cares (radiation, emission, absorption, etc.).
Interactions with matter can do interesting things; reflections are well
known to increase polarization (hence polarized sunglasses). Reflection
is a surface thing, so it gives a reference plane to the polarization.
Surfaces in space tend to be random, so I imagine the amount of
polarization is small and averages to zero. I'm not very familiar with
astronomical sources of polarization. I just read that magnetic fields
are known to produce circular polarization. You'll see far more surfaces
(dust, objects, etc.) and volumes (dust clouds, nebulas) than intense
magnetic fields (compact objects such as planets and stars), especially in
terms of what the light goes through (e.g. translucent dust clouds).

This explains the greater incidence of linear polarization, but makes no
statement as to its fundamental nature. If you'd like to make a practical
argument, then there is a lot of linear polarization out there, and it's
somewhat easier to make a linearly polarized antenna.

As I mentioned previously, QM gives a useful reason for circular to be
fundamental-- it carries angular momentum, on the order of hbar per
photon. A sufficiently weak, linearly polarized beam will have circular
polarization, if you look at each photon. The circularity averages to
zero, since each photon is a coin flip. But there *is* a coin, and it's
either 1 or -1, never zero or sideways. If the photons were fundamentally
linearly polarized, they would carry no angular momentum on any scale,
individual or average.

If they were linearly polarized, would there be any way to tell? Is there
a quanta of tangential momentum which could be delivered which averages to
angular momentum, for an apparently circular polarized beam? I don't see
any way this would work, so it looks like circular is the winner.

Tim
 
J

Jamie Morken

It seems to me 99% of light is not polarized at all -- black body
radiators don't care, for instance. I don't know that any other primary
physical phenomena cares (radiation, emission, absorption, etc.).
Interactions with matter can do interesting things; reflections are well
known to increase polarization (hence polarized sunglasses). Reflection
is a surface thing, so it gives a reference plane to the polarization.
Surfaces in space tend to be random, so I imagine the amount of
polarization is small and averages to zero. I'm not very familiar with
astronomical sources of polarization. I just read that magnetic fields
are known to produce circular polarization. You'll see far more surfaces
(dust, objects, etc.) and volumes (dust clouds, nebulas) than intense
magnetic fields (compact objects such as planets and stars), especially in
terms of what the light goes through (e.g. translucent dust clouds).

This explains the greater incidence of linear polarization, but makes no
statement as to its fundamental nature. If you'd like to make a practical
argument, then there is a lot of linear polarization out there, and it's
somewhat easier to make a linearly polarized antenna.

As I mentioned previously, QM gives a useful reason for circular to be
fundamental-- it carries angular momentum, on the order of hbar per
photon. A sufficiently weak, linearly polarized beam will have circular
polarization, if you look at each photon. The circularity averages to
zero, since each photon is a coin flip. But there *is* a coin, and it's
either 1 or -1, never zero or sideways. If the photons were fundamentally
linearly polarized, they would carry no angular momentum on any scale,
individual or average.

If they were linearly polarized, would there be any way to tell? Is there
a quanta of tangential momentum which could be delivered which averages to
angular momentum, for an apparently circular polarized beam? I don't see
any way this would work, so it looks like circular is the winner.

Tim

Hi,

I would also think that randomly polarized light can be understood most
simply as being composed of multiple linearly polarized light emissions.
In other words, the fundamental light emission would be linearly
polarized as transverse waves. Sorry I see no point in debating about
photons, if you believe in light travelling rectilinearly and
instantaneously then we should agree to disagree! :)

cheers,
Jamie
 
J

Jamie Morken

I'm not quite sure what you are saying, But take one CW wave and add
it to a CCW circularly polarized wave (of the same amplitude and
frequency) and you get a linear polarized wave. (I'm waving my hands
around in circles, if you can't see.)

Saying one is more fundamental, is like saying that Cartesian
coordinates are more fundamental than polar coordinates. They are
both equivalent at some point and you pick which is more useful...

Hi,

There is a physical explanation and theory of light as transverse waves
that is independent of any coordinate system. See this page for an
explanation of how two circularly polarized waves interfere and create a
single linearly polarized wave:

http://www.nsm.buffalo.edu/~jochena/research/opticalactivity.html

From that page:
"
Consider the animation of circularly polarized light above. If we
superimpose this wave with a circularly polarized wave of the opposite
"handedness" where the blue component is 1/4 wavelength behind (instead
of ahead), the two blue components will completely cancel because they
are 180 degrees (half a wavelength) out of phase. Thus, we would be left
with just a linearly polarized wave."

The model of circularly polarized light (from that page) is of
horizontal and vertical phase shifted linearly polarized light, so when
they interfere a CW and CCW circularly polarized wave, they are really
just cancelling one axis of the linearly polarized light and
constructively interfering on the orthogonal axis. The description is
always based on interactions between linearly polarized light everywhere
I read, and it is not a coordinate system is is physical wave interference.

You can go the other way and say that for example a horizontal linearly
polarized wave is composed of CW and CCW circularly polarized waves, but
that is a more complex way to imagine the fundamental nature of light I
think, but still valid.

I understand if you pick whichever view is most useful at the time, I am
interested about the emissions and absorptions of light from matter, ie.
electron orbital state changes, to see if it is a random axis linearly
polarized wave per orbital jump or not.

I never understood why high energy electromagnetic waves acted more like
particles, but I see there is a simple explanation for it now. Antenna
gain is proportional to frequency, so for an emission from an atom, the
higher the frequency of the emission (ie. gamma ray from the nucleus)
the higher the gain will be, with the atom acting as a directional
reflector. The antenna gain plot for a gamma ray will have a highly
directional, very narrow cone angle.

cheers,
Jamie
 
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