PCB Assembly Services

[[email protected]]

Hi,

I have a small board id like to have assembled - 50 of them infact. I
have been sending out quotes, and trying to locate a company that can
do it here in Australia. The only problem is, most of these companies
employee's have to pay off their million dollar houses and the charges
for assembly is almost three time the cost per board of my entire
board!.

I expect now is a very good time to start thinking about assembling in
China. Does anyone know of any good Chinese based companies with an
ordering style webpage? (a bit like www.pcbcart.com but for assembly)

My board is generic, 2 layer PCB with 40 or so SMD parts. Nothing
fancy.

If anyone has any suggestions, it would be much appreicated.

thanks,
Steve

 

[Mike Harrison]

Hi,

I have a small board id like to have assembled - 50 of them infact. I
have been sending out quotes, and trying to locate a company that can
do it here in Australia. The only problem is, most of these companies
employee's have to pay off their million dollar houses and the charges
for assembly is almost three time the cost per board of my entire
board!.

I expect now is a very good time to start thinking about assembling in
China. Does anyone know of any good Chinese based companies with an
ordering style webpage? (a bit like www.pcbcart.com but for assembly)

My board is generic, 2 layer PCB with 40 or so SMD parts. Nothing
fancy.

If anyone has any suggestions, it would be much appreicated.

thanks,
Steve

For 50 off, Chinese will likely be even less inteersted than your local places.
At low volumes like these, setup/tooling costs will be the dominant factor so until you get into at
least several hundred, the per-board cost will be high.

 

[Ecnerwal]

the charges
for assembly is almost three time the cost per board of my entire
board!. ....
My board is generic, 2 layer PCB with 40 or so SMD parts. Nothing
fancy.

If anyone has any suggestions, it would be much appreicated.

Do it yourself. If nothing else, it might make you appreciate that it's
actual work. Follow up with a report on how long it took you, and how
much of a million dollar house you think it would buy you. Assembly
costing more than the board does is quite typical - board manufacturing
processes are highly automated and by combining small orders can be done
efficiently in small quantities. With an assembly run of 50, you are
either dealing with skilled manual labor (I don't have a million dollar
house, but I won't touch this sort of work for less than US$50/hour, and
I'm one of the cheaper options) or a job that's not worth bothering with
the setup (much less stocking the part feed magazines) of automated
equipment better suited to making 5000.

Some folks making stuff for electronics or radio (where the customer
might be interested/capable) avoid assembly by selling kits.

 

[Geoffrey]

For 50 off, Chinese will likely be even less inteersted than your local places.
At low volumes like these, setup/tooling costs will be the dominant factor so until you get into at
least several hundred, the per-board cost will be high.

This is all quite idiotic since Today
the manufacturing process should entirely be automated.

The problem with industry is it is specific
minded and not general minded.

No or little flexibility.

Somewhere there is a factory that will build
anything at a reasonable cost but it is ,most probably, a classified military
research place and not regular civilian industry.
People (Civilians) are scared of liability because they do not
know what a circuit use may be.
Try to buy a decent barometer sometime with units in millibars. They should be as cheap as humidity meters
but here in the usa you will only find them as
very expensive scientific apparatus.
They use money here to control security and not
just brute force.

 

[Rich Webb]

This is all quite idiotic since Today
the manufacturing process should entirely be automated.

Feel free to make specific recommendations for process improvements.

The problem with industry is it is specific
minded and not general minded.

So, decades of experience in a specific area of technology is a problem?

No or little flexibility.

Yep. That's why we're all still carrying 10 kg cell phones. Oh, wait ...

Somewhere there is a factory that will build
anything at a reasonable cost but it is ,most probably, a classified military
research place and not regular civilian industry.

Um, no. Military equipment tends to be low volume and high unit cost. A
large production run might be 100 units per year, and much (or all) may
be done by slow, expensive hand assembly.

People (Civilians) are scared of liability because they do not
know what a circuit use may be.

Could you rephrase that in a way that makes sense?

Try to buy a decent barometer sometime with units in millibars. They should be as cheap as humidity meters
but here in the usa you will only find them as
very expensive scientific apparatus.

This is indeed a tragedy. I had to look as far as, well, the very first
site that I checked in order to find a "decent barometer ... with units
in millibars." Truly, Something Must Be Done!

They use money here to control security and not
just brute force.

Careful ... "They" are reading this too!

 

[Jan Panteltje]

This is indeed a tragedy. I had to look as far as, well, the very first
site that I checked in order to find a "decent barometer ... with units
in millibars." Truly, Something Must Be Done!

<http://www.amazon.com/Weems-Plath-B...sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=124213234
7&sr=8-2>

Expensive:
I have this one, from www.conrad.nl, 15 Euro:
http://media.conrad.com/m/6000_6999/6500/6500/6501/650140_BB_02_FB.EPS.jpg
Have their hygrometer too.

 

[[email protected]]

This is all quite idiotic since Today
the manufacturing process should entirely be automated.

Do you think it automates itself? Moron.
You think there's no setup, all boards are the same?
Kill yourself, now.

 

[Smitty Two]

Hi,

I have a small board id like to have assembled - 50 of them infact. I
have been sending out quotes, and trying to locate a company that can
do it here in Australia. The only problem is, most of these companies
employee's have to pay off their million dollar houses and the charges
for assembly is almost three time the cost per board of my entire
board!.

I expect now is a very good time to start thinking about assembling in
China. Does anyone know of any good Chinese based companies with an
ordering style webpage? (a bit like www.pcbcart.com but for assembly)

My board is generic, 2 layer PCB with 40 or so SMD parts. Nothing
fancy.

If anyone has any suggestions, it would be much appreicated.

thanks,
Steve

We do short-run surface mount by hand. Send them to me here in the U.S.
along with all the components, and I'll put them together for you for
$25 U.S. each. How's that sound?

OTOH, if you redesign for through-hole, the parts will cost less and the
assembly cost will drop to about $8.

Surface mount is designed for automation, and is very cost-effective if
you're making thousands of units.

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

Hi,

I have a small board id like to have assembled - 50 of them infact. I
have been sending out quotes, and trying to locate a company that can
do it here in Australia. The only problem is, most of these companies
employee's have to pay off their million dollar houses and the charges
for assembly is almost three time the cost per board of my entire
board!.

What's minimum wage in Australia? $10-15 US an hour maybe, perhaps a
bit less for a student? You can't expect to get things really cheap,
particularly if you want skilled assembly.

I expect now is a very good time to start thinking about assembling in
China. Does anyone know of any good Chinese based companies with an
ordering style webpage? (a bit like www.pcbcart.com but for assembly)

My board is generic, 2 layer PCB with 40 or so SMD parts. Nothing
fancy.

If anyone has any suggestions, it would be much appreicated.

thanks,
Steve

If you have at least $5,000 in assembly labor you might consider
sending it offshore. Either cheap boards and lots of them (watch QC--
don't let them source parts for you unless you really know what you
are doing, and expect substantial setup and shipping costs), or few
like you have and pay through the nose for skilled hand assembly and
manual setup.

If you hire a local student, provide equipment, train and supervise
them, to do it by hand ("here, copy the sample") will probably be the
cheapest.

If your business requires this, in that kind of quantity "moving
forward", I suggest that you are probably dabbling in the wrong
business. If it's just to get started, then it's better to pay the
money up front and charge it to marketing or product development.

 

[TTman]

Hi,

I have a small board id like to have assembled - 50 of them infact. I
have been sending out quotes, and trying to locate a company that can
do it here in Australia. The only problem is, most of these companies
employee's have to pay off their million dollar houses and the charges
for assembly is almost three time the cost per board of my entire
board!.

I expect now is a very good time to start thinking about assembling in
China. Does anyone know of any good Chinese based companies with an
ordering style webpage? (a bit like www.pcbcart.com but for assembly)

My board is generic, 2 layer PCB with 40 or so SMD parts. Nothing
fancy.

If anyone has any suggestions, it would be much appreicated.

thanks,
Steve

So long as nothing <805 and no rediculous high pin count/fine pitch, 10p per
component from me in the UK.
Shipping costs will be huge

 

[Mike Harrison]

This is all quite idiotic since Today
the manufacturing process should entirely be automated.

It is, but there are still setup costs, including solder paste mask, machine programming, component
kitting ( I assume you will not be buying full reels of all your parts?).

The problem with industry is it is specific
minded and not general minded.

The industry is minded to whatever is profitable.

 

[Mike Harrison]

So long as nothing <805 and no rediculous high pin count/fine pitch, 10p per
component from me in the UK.
Shipping costs will be huge

Another option is to hand-place and invest in a toaster over or skillet.

 

[Mike Harrison]

Stupid...stupid...stupid.
It takes TIME to set-up a pick-and place system and the more
varieties of parts, the longer it takes; that is an NRE cost that
exceeds what manual labor would be for so few boards.
And if you attempt to argue "well..many of the parts for one board
are useable for others" you are absolutely crazy - as having thousands
of pick-and place machines (one per part type and value) sitting in the
wings for Mister Justin Case is VERY COSTLY.

However if you design around very common parts that your assembler usually keeps reels on feeders
for, and reduce the number of different parts to an absolute minimum ( to the extend of using 2
resistors of an existing value instead of one different one) it can reduce setup costs substantially
- a board I just did has about 80 resistors but only 3 different values.

 

[[email protected]]

Do it yourself.

--> Ive been assembling boards too long.

If nothing else, it might make you appreciate that it's

actual work.

--> For most people, just looking at a board is enough information to
allow them to appreciate what hand assembly work is involved.

Follow up with a report on how long it took you, and how

much of a million dollar house you think it would buy you.

--> This is unnesscery work. Id like to focus on assembling my boards.

Assembly

costing more than the board does is quite typical -

--> No its not.

board manufacturing

processes are highly automated and by combining small orders can be done
efficiently in small quantities. With an assembly run of 50, you are
either dealing with skilled manual labor (I don't have a million dollar
house, but I won't touch this sort of work for less than US$50/hour, and
I'm one of the cheaper options) or a job that's not worth bothering with
the setup (much less stocking the part feed magazines) of automated
equipment better suited to making 5000.

--> if you can compete, its not worth being in the game.

Some folks making stuff for electronics or radio (where the customer
might be interested/capable) avoid assembly by selling kits.

--> thanks for trying help.

 

[[email protected]]

   You did not give any indication as to even the order of magnitude of
charges.

--> $AU6000 for 50 boards - $120 per board. But does this really
matter? Im just after some info on good assembly houses that do
prototype runs.

   For a measly 50 boards, it all has to be done by hand..

--> no it dosent.

..the cost of

setting up pick-and-place for that quantity would exceed the by-hand method.

--> I dont think so either. Automated assembly is advancing in some
countries (obviously not others)

   If the charge is in the region of $20 per board, then you should not
complain or you should DIY.- Hide quoted text -

--> Its a 120 per board. too much.

 

[Smitty Two]

--> $AU6000 for 50 boards - $120 per board. But does this really
matter? Im just after some info on good assembly houses that do
prototype runs.

Assuming you're providing the parts, that really is too much, by a
factor of about 4. Seriously.