One of My High Technology Contributions to Microchip Design

[John Fields]

Hi Jim,

If you count the "C" siblings that came after your original I probably
added another boat load of consumed chips here ;-)

 

[Winfield Hill]

Hey, Here's my latest gadget:

http://www.highlandtechnology.com/DSS/P400DS.html

Actually, three of us here worked on this for about three years as
sort of a background project, when we didn't have a paying customer
screaming for delivery on something. I never appreciated how much
hassle a benchtop instrument would really be until this got serious. A
VME or PCI board is blindingly simple compared to all the stuff you
have to put into a box like this. And by the time you finish it,
things have changed so much you're dying to redesign it again from
scratch. m.u.s.t..r.e.s.i.s.t..t.e.m.p.t.a.t.i.o.n.

I'm impressed. OK, how much does it cost? I'd like to see a
scaled-back version, with 0.1ns resolution, and 8 channels, etc.
Smaller perhaps and cheaper. Scalable to 16, 24, 32 channels.

Thanks,
- Win

(email: use hill_at_rowland-dot-org for now)

 

[Ian Stirling]

BTW: This design runs off a single cell, boosts its own VDD, and has
also a HV output to drive a piezo actuator that drives the pump. Also
counts the time between "squirts" ;-)

Can you give any more info about the pump, sounds like it might be handy
for micropumping applications, at a fraction of the price of a proper one.

Can the timer be defeated so it runs whenever it gets power?

Just shows that though it's a simple circuit, that even I could
design in a couple of hours, and probably use no more than 7 components
that there'll be a place for custom silicon for a while yet.

 

[Jim Thompson]

Can you give any more info about the pump, sounds like it might be handy
for micropumping applications, at a fraction of the price of a proper one.

Can the timer be defeated so it runs whenever it gets power?

Just shows that though it's a simple circuit, that even I could
design in a couple of hours, and probably use no more than 7 components
that there'll be a place for custom silicon for a while yet.

Not so easy there. There's a 60 day refill life, but there's a 6
month battery-life spec ;-)

It's a custom ASIC, not publicly available; and the piezo-mechanical
pump was developed by Fitch, an SC Johnson subsidiary.

...Jim Thompson

 

[Watson A.Name \Watt Sun - the Dark Remover\]

On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 08:35:45 -0700, John Larkin

I wouldn't know where to begin.

Probably the 1488/1489 RS-232 chip set would have had the highest
volume.

But not due to lack of ruggedness. Every Radio Snack carries (or
carried) these, and they just gathered dust on the shelf, indicating to
me that there were not many of them going bad. Must've been built like
the proverbial brick sh#thouse. ;-)

Although my alternator regulator chips would be up in the millions
also.

Each one being connected to an automobile, so you can get a good idea of
the quantity by looking at the number of vehicles sold.

The PLL stuff would be high volume but not astronomic.

Then I have probably 100 custom chips, designed for
application-specific use, probably each in the 10K/year category.

But this latest one for SC Johnson will probably be an all-time
high... only way the volume could be any better would be if it fit
into a TP dispenser ;-)

Unfortunately huge volume would mean very low cost, and not a lotta $$$.

BTW: This design runs off a single cell, boosts its own VDD, and has
also a HV output to drive a piezo actuator that drives the pump. Also
counts the time between "squirts" ;-)

Who makes them? Or who makes the circuit board? Or who makes.... :-?

 

[Watson A.Name \Watt Sun - the Dark Remover\]

On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 09:52:50 -0700, John Larkin
[snip]

And by the time you finish it,
things have changed so much you're dying to redesign it again from
scratch. m.u.s.t..r.e.s.i.s.t..t.e.m.p.t.a.t.i.o.n.

John

ROTFLMAO! That's a constant problem with circuit designers... when to
let it loose and call it completed... I'm always in a quandary with
"perfection" ;-)

I thought that's why god made EEPROMs - so you could make major changes
with a chip change. You can just charge the customer a couple thou to
fly a tech out and 'upgrade ' the box, and recal it.

 

[Activ8]

Nice.

Just out of curiosity (I'm not after $$ figures), but how is a chip project
like that handled?

Did you design that chip specifically for SC Johnson, under contract?

On what are your payments based? Was it a fixed-amount one-time payment,
per-piece license fee? Who owns the rights to the design?

Finally, who handles your licensing/contract agreements?

Thanks for any info --

That's basically what I'd ask, but if you recall, Jim kill filed
you. Maybe you've been pardoned by now.

 

[legg]

One of My High Technology Contributions to Microchip Design...

Doesn't it bug you, the avenues open to making a living these days?

When you think of all the things that really need doing; and then even
serious work gets diverted. For example ...

A biomedical laser (portable in-office cataract surgery) ends up
being used as a high tech paint-ball on a tank.

A blood analyser ends up being used mainly for sports drugs or other
'personnel' employee security clearance work.

It doesn't matter how high tech it is, if the chimpanzee you give it
to only uses it to make noises by banging it against rocks or the bars
to it's cage.

RL

 

[Roy McCammon]

'Twas tongue-in-cheek. It's my chip in the product. But it's this
sort of thing that makes more money than PLLs, for instance.

I still a got a tongue in my cheek.

 

[Julie]

That's basically what I'd ask, but if you recall, Jim kill filed
you. Maybe you've been pardoned by now.

Right -- I forgot. One of my raining on the OT parades.

Oh well.

 

[Julie]

That's basically what I'd ask, but if you recall, Jim kill filed
you. Maybe you've been pardoned by now.

I've got to ask, how in the world did you remember that JT killfiled me?

 

[Activ8]

I've got to ask, how in the world did you remember that JT killfiled me?

I remember just about everything. It keeps people honest, at least
once they figure out that they can't get over on me and that's
assuming that I let them know that I know rather than pretending to
not know... when I really know. You never know

BTW. It wasn't your OT mini-rant that got you killfiled and Jim
didn't say why, just that he did it some time ago (prior to that OT
thing.) IIRC he alluded to thinking you were posing as a female,
though I'm not sure that's what landed you in his bozo bin.

At any rate, I'd like to know the answers to those questions.

 

[Activ8]

...Jim Thompson
I don't know what ROTFLMAO stands for, but an old engineer once
said to me "Shoot the engineer, deliver the product".

Mark

The "T" isn't neccessary. If you're not using Forte Agent, 40tude
Dialog is a good reader and it under lines those abbrrevs and
acronyms and give the definition if you hover the mouse pointer over
it.

As soon as I finish migrating to Agent that's history, but you can
type those things in google and get an answer rapidly.

Of course, in this group, when someone types PCB, it doesn't mean
"please call back."

 

[Kevin Aylward]

I remember just about everything. It keeps people honest, at least
once they figure out that they can't get over on me and that's
assuming that I let them know that I know rather than pretending to
not know... when I really know. You never know

BTW. It wasn't your OT mini-rant that got you killfiled and Jim
didn't say why, just that he did it some time ago (prior to that OT
thing.) IIRC he alluded to thinking you were posing as a female,
though I'm not sure that's what landed you in his bozo bin.

At any rate, I'd like to know the answers to those questions.

I think I have a pretty good guess. In my view, its just about certian
that the client bought the thing lock, stock and barrel. It would make
little sense for them to do otherwise. There are plenty of independent
consultancies/companies that will do this, i.e. pretty much all of them.
The golden rule, he who has the gold, makes the rules.

Kevin Aylward
[email protected]
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.

 

[Ian Stirling]

Not so easy there. There's a 60 day refill life, but there's a 6
month battery-life spec ;-)

Oops, I meant to add "and lasts a month on 2 D cells".

It's a custom ASIC, not publicly available; and the piezo-mechanical
pump was developed by Fitch, an SC Johnson subsidiary.

Oh well, it seems not to be on sale in the UK, so it's not quite so easy
to get to play with.
Thanks.

 

[Activ8]

I think I have a pretty good guess. In my view, its just about certian
that the client bought the thing lock, stock and barrel. It would make
little sense for them to do otherwise. There are plenty of independent
consultancies/companies that will do this, i.e. pretty much all of them.
The golden rule, he who has the gold, makes the rules.

Kevin Aylward
[email protected]
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.

I would've guessed that too, Kevin. It was a multipart question,
though. Settle for partial credit?

 

[John Larkin]

I'm impressed. OK, how much does it cost? I'd like to see a
scaled-back version, with 0.1ns resolution, and 8 channels, etc.
Smaller perhaps and cheaper. Scalable to 16, 24, 32 channels.

Thanks,
- Win

(email: use hill_at_rowland-dot-org for now)

$3840, just a hair under brand S. I'd like to do a cheaper version
with a simpler technology, but my marketing people don't want us to
kill our own product just when it's getting up to speed. If you want a
lot of DDG channels, a rack full of VME modules is the usual way to
go. It's more common, actually, for people to want a lot of channels
of time measurement, as opposed to many channels of time delay.
Exceptions are big laser arrays like NIF, and implosion experiments.

Actually, a huge-number-of-channels delay gadget would be a fun thing
to do, but I'd guess you wouldn't sell many.

John

 

[fogh]

Doesn't it bug you, the avenues open to making a living these days?

When you think of all the things that really need doing; and then even
serious work gets diverted. For example ...

A biomedical laser (portable in-office cataract surgery) ends up
being used as a high tech paint-ball on a tank.

A blood analyser ends up being used mainly for sports drugs or other
'personnel' employee security clearance work.

It doesn't matter how high tech it is, if the chimpanzee you give it
to only uses it to make noises by banging it against rocks or the bars
to it's cage.

RL

The most typical example that heard of, around 10 years ago. Sorry but I
have no references :
A brilliant research study that could result in reliable tools to
measure pain of premature babies or autists was made. Cum Laude, et coetera.
The only problem is that no research lab, great hospital, or
pharmaceutical company hired that researcher. The only employer that
he/she found was a food-industrial, who got the technique applied to the
slaughtering of cows: using the pain indicators it was possible to strip
and streamline the slaughter procedure until the point where pain was
detected.

 

[Kevin Aylward]

The most typical example that heard of, around 10 years ago. Sorry
but I have no references :
A brilliant research study that could result in reliable tools to
measure pain of premature babies or autists was made.

Yeah, sure....

Cum Laude, et
coetera. The only problem is that no research lab, great hospital,

Not surprising. Such a claim is completely vacuous.

or pharmaceutical company hired that researcher.
The only employer
that he/she found was a food-industrial, who got the technique
applied to the slaughtering of cows:

Who just want to appease the antivivisectionists, sure we can tell when
the cow doesn't feel pain. Like, shit they can.

using the pain indicators it was
possible to strip and streamline the slaughter procedure until the
point where pain was detected.

Cold comfort indeed for the cows. No chance in hell that this system
does as claimed.

Since there is no definition of consciousness, nor anyway to determine
if something has consciousness, it is simply impossible to construct a
"pain detector". There simply is no way of numerically knowing when a
foetus has enough neurons to constitute a feeling of pain within the
current understanding of the brain. One can only "reasonable" say that,
say prior to 3 months from conception, there are essentially no relevant
neural connections, so no pain. However, where a "reasonable" line may
be drawn after his point, is completely arbitrary guesswork.

Related stuff at http://www.anasoft.co.uk/replicators/index.html

Kevin Aylward
[email protected]
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.

 

[Activ8]

The most typical example that heard of, around 10 years ago. Sorry but I
have no references :
A brilliant research study that could result in reliable tools to
measure pain of premature babies or autists was made. Cum Laude, et coetera.
The only problem is that no research lab, great hospital, or
pharmaceutical company hired that researcher. The only employer that
he/she found was a food-industrial, who got the technique applied to the
slaughtering of cows: using the pain indicators it was possible to strip
and streamline the slaughter procedure until the point where pain was
detected.

Well, something good still came of it, maybe. An old partner told me
that when the slaughter cows, the have a contraption that drive a
rod through the brain rapidly so the cow dies fast and can't pump
adrenaline into the blood, thereby making the meat tough and gamey.