New Simon 3 erratic behavior

[jobs]

New Simon 3 all with fresh batteries.

I disarm the alarm with neither the doors&windows or Motion Sensors
on. Yet the motion sensor causes the alarm to trip. What's up with
that? I've had to take the battery out of the motion Sensor to stop
it.

Also, I suddenly get a keychain sensor error that can't be cleared
unless I delete the keychain from the device.

It's like it's got a mind of it's own. It's 4am eastern now and it's
woken everybody in the house up several times.

 

[Crash Gordon]

Sounds like a programming error.



--
**Crash Gordon**

| New Simon 3 all with fresh batteries.
|
| I disarm the alarm with neither the doors&windows or Motion Sensors
| on. Yet the motion sensor causes the alarm to trip. What's up with
| that? I've had to take the battery out of the motion Sensor to stop
| it.
|
| Also, I suddenly get a keychain sensor error that can't be cleared
| unless I delete the keychain from the device.
|
| It's like it's got a mind of it's own. It's 4am eastern now and it's
| woken everybody in the house up several times.
|

 

[jobs]

Sounds like a programming error.

Not much there. I removed the sensor and readded it. Set the alarm on
for the first day (today) around 9am, and went to work.

Around 10:30am, the online monitoring site reported

Sensor Tamper Alarm: Zone 3 at 10:25 AM on Wed, Nov 28

I have to say this about my NextAlarm/Simon 3 Adventure... I'm not
impressed with the Simon 3, to me it will likely go back if i can't
get that motion sensor to work right. Also, the keychains have been
setting off another error about :


Supervision RF Loss: Zone 5 at 3:01 AM on Wed, Nov 28


All that said. NextAlarm seems to be a pretty brilliant business Idea.
Their site gives you real time information about the status of the
alarm, and it provides an RSS feed you build an alert around. They
even offer a $5/mo and free level of service. They have online
support, but it is very limited. If I can just get the simon 3 to stop
doing false tripping I might just keep it.

Anybody know of a simple wireless alarm with a remote dialer -meaning
it's dialing wireless so I don't have to run a phone line to it? - I
know there are rj11 devices that do this.

 

[Jim]

Not much there. I removed the sensor and readded it. Set the alarm on
for the first day (today) around 9am, and went to work.

Around 10:30am, the online monitoring site reported

Sensor Tamper Alarm: Zone 3 at 10:25 AM on Wed, Nov 28

I have to say this about my NextAlarm/Simon 3 Adventure... I'm not
impressed with the Simon 3, to me it will likely go back if i can't
get that motion sensor to work right. Also, the keychains have been
setting off another error about :

Supervision RF Loss: Zone 5 at 3:01 AM on Wed, Nov 28

All that said. NextAlarm seems to be a pretty brilliant business Idea.
Their site gives you real time information about the status of the
alarm, and it provides an RSS feed you build an alert around. They
even offer a $5/mo and free level of service. They have online
support, but it is very limited. If I can just get the simon 3 to stop
doing false tripping I might just keep it.

Anybody know of a simple wireless alarm with a remote dialer �-meaning
it's dialing wireless so I don't have to run a phone line to it? - �I
know there are rj11 devices that do this.

I usually stay out of these things as I've done with you so far, but
sometimes it just gets to be too much and I just can't resist.

If you'd have hired a competent installer in the first place you
wouldn't be going through this. What you're going through is just the
chance you took when you decided to do this on your own. I doubt that
there's anyone here who can help you. It sounds like one of those
"experience" things that one runs into, when trying to do something
they aren't equipped to handle.
Call a few local installers and see if any of them are willing to come
over and straighten out your installation. I'm sure they'll find a
number of things wrong that you think you did right and it will be
well worth whatever they charge to have a working system. You've tried
it the hard way. At the least, why not let some one reassure you that
you have everything right. After all, I'm sure you did this with a
purpose in mind, which I presume is protection of your family and
possessions. After all that you've invested up till now, why not have
the satisfaction of knowing that it's going to do what you started out
wanting to do.

Also, if you thought you were getting a bargin in monitoring fees, how
does it feel now, when you can't get any help? It all ALWAYS boils
down to

Ya get what ya pay for. This Simon system is a tinker toy. That
is .......... If you'd hired an alarm installation company to install
a "real" system and was being monitored by them, you wouldn't be going
through all this shit now. Your alarm system ( what little you have)
would be low on your list of priorities and you could be off doing
something that you are more capable of doing.

 

[jobs]

Ya get what ya pay for. This Simon system is a tinker toy. That
is .......... If you'd hired an alarm installation company to install
a "real" system and was being monitored by them, you wouldn't be going
through all this shit now. Your alarm system ( what little you have)
would be low on your list of priorities and you could be off doing
something that you are more capable of doing.>

No doubt most busy professionals would agree. But then again I know a
lot of guys out there who don't own a power drill. BTW, any guy who
does not own a power drill should have his man card revoked.

And I kinda knew I was cutting corners a bit and I might be in for
another painful lesson. Personally, I always come out the other side
with an appreciation. And My motto, why pay three times as much, when
I can try to do it right three times.

But for what it's worth, I know people with professionally installed
wireless systems from ADT and Protection one. They too get false
alarms and I know they get two hour response from a fire alarm. I've
seen it.

In my case, I want the certificate for the insurance discount and
eventually I don't want real monitoring, just something I can rely on
to alert about 4 friends and family.

I cut my own hair, the first time I did it I had to wear a baseball
cap for two weeks for fear of being misidentified as a skinhead. .
Today, the haircuts I give myself I do in 10 minutes and are the best
ones I've ever had.

Thanks for the feedback.. Its all good.

 

[Robert L Bass]

No doubt most busy professionals would agree. But then again I know
a lot of guys out there who don't own a power drill. BTW, any guy
who does not own a power drill should have his man card revoked.

True indeed. Besides, alarm work isn't rocket science. If you can
read a manual you're probably over-qualified.

And I kinda knew I was cutting corners a bit and I might be in for
another painful lesson. Personally, I always come out the other
side with an appreciation. And My motto, why pay three times as
much, when I can try to do it right three times.

Also true and frankly, you'll often get a better system by doing it
yourself than what some "professionals" will offer. Some of these
guys do try to provide a quality alarm but many couldn't care less
about anything but getting the job done as fast as possible. That's
one of the reasons police departments are flooded with false alarm
signals all over the country.

But for what it's worth, I know people with professionally
installed wireless systems from ADT and Protection one. They too
get false alarms and I know they get two hour response from a fire
alarm. I've seen it.

ADT and P1 aren't the only culprits. Most alarm companies farm out
their monitoring business to large, national central stations.
Service quality and speed varies from mediocre to awful. The worst
part is the markup. The central station charges alarm dealers
between $2 and $7 a month for "basic" residential monitoring. The
alarm company resells the service for anywhere from $20 to $40 a
month and the cost bears no relationship to the price. They charge
whatever they can get away with.

Once you're signed on for monitoring services, watch out. Most have
at least a three year agreement. Some insist on five years. If you
move or cancel they'll threaten and harass you, go after you in
court, wreck your credit, whatever it takes to keep that monthly
check coming in.

In my case, I want the certificate for the insurance discount and
eventually I don't want real monitoring, just something I can rely
on to alert about 4 friends and family.

In many cases that's all you need. Why pay some rip-off alarm
company $40 a month to do what your neighbor can do for free,
especially when the neighbor will do it faster and more reliably?

I cut my own hair, the first time I did it I had to wear a baseball
cap for two weeks for fear of being misidentified as a skinhead.
. Today, the haircuts I give myself I do in 10 minutes and are
the best ones I've ever had.

I probably aught to cut mine, too, but there's so little up there
it's not worth bothering.

Thanks for the feedback.. Its all good.

You're most welcome.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

==============================>
Bass Home Electronics
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
Sales & Tech Support 941-925-8650
Customer Service 941-232-0791
Fax 941-870-3252
==============================>

 

[[email protected]]

bass said:
True indeed. Besides, alarm work isn't rocket science. If you can
read a manual you're probably over-qualified.

RW:
Anyone who can read can read a manual. It's understanding and applying
what you read that matters. Alarm installation manuals are written by
engineers for other engineers and often follow no logical order. I've
been in this racket a few years now and it still takes me several
reads to finally get it.

bass says:

Also true and frankly, you'll often get a better system by doing it
yourself than what some "professionals" will offer.

RW
You forgot to mention you might need some basic skills first.

bass:
Some of these

guys do try to provide a quality alarm but many couldn't care less
about anything but getting the job done as fast as possible. That's
one of the reasons police departments are flooded with false alarm
signals all over the country.

RW
Can't argue with that.

bass says:

ADT and P1 aren't the only culprits. Most alarm companies farm out
their monitoring business to large, national central stations.
Service quality and speed varies from mediocre to awful.

RW
Mediocre to awful? You mean no national central gives good to
excellent service? I don't think that's fair to good honest central
station owners that are working hard to give our customers what we
dealers pay them to do.

bass:
The worst

part is the markup. The central station charges alarm dealers
between $2 and $7 a month for "basic" residential monitoring. The
alarm company resells the service for anywhere from $20 to $40 a
month and the cost bears no relationship to the price. They charge
whatever they can get away with.

RW
I heard that you're the one who charges whatever you can get away
with.

bass:

Once you're signed on for monitoring services, watch out. Most have
at least a three year agreement. Some insist on five years. If you
move or cancel they'll threaten and harass you, go after you in
court, wreck your credit, whatever it takes to keep that monthly
check coming in.

RW
Not everyone does that.

In my case, I want the certificate for the insurance discount and
eventually I don't want real monitoring, just something I can rely

In many cases that's all you need. Why pay some rip-off alarm
company $40 a month to do what your neighbor can do for free,
especially when the neighbor will do it faster and more reliably?

RW
Yeah like that guy in Texas who blew away the perps too. Make sure
your neighbors are home by their phones 24 hrs a day watching your
place.

bass said:

I probably aught to cut mine, too, but there's so little up there
it's not worth bothering.

RW
Why don't you coat your noggin with 3M cement and do a headstand on
your local barbershop floor? It's cheaper than the Hair Club for Men
and its all natural.

 

[Jim]

No doubt most busy professionals would agree. But then again I know a
lot of guys out there who don't own a power drill. BTW, any guy who
does not own a power drill should have his man card revoked.

And I kinda knew I was cutting corners a bit and I might be in for
another painful lesson. Personally, I always come out the other side
with an appreciation. And My motto, why pay three times as much, when
I can try to do it right three times.

But for what it's worth, I know people with professionally installed
wireless systems from ADT and Protection one. They too get false
alarms and I �know they get two hour response from a fire alarm. I've
seen it.

The very fact that you're using two of the worst offenders to compare
with, is indicative of your lack of knowledge of this trade. If you'd
read any past posts in this Newsgroup, you'd find dozens of similar
stories about the National alarm companys. ANY company who installs
"lick and stick" systems, is not interested in security, it's all
about the contract and the monthly income. It's usually only the
people who don't want to take the time to investigate what a security
system is about or who've been brainwashed by the advertising or brand
names, or by on-line vendors like Bass, who are dumb enough to get
caught in thinking that a security system is an "off the shelf"
commodity. So you're pretty much off the mark with that comment.

In my case, I want the certificate for the insurance discount and
eventually I don't want real monitoring, just something I can rely on
to alert about 4 friends and family.

So it's NOT about securing your home and family. Well, then, I guess
that's a whole other story.

With regard to the friends and family, how long do you think it's
going to take for them to ignore your unreliable alarm system? As a
matter of fact, what do you expect that they're going to do, even if
they GET a call? Run to your house? Call the authorities? Will they
even GET the call? Are they all home during the day? Are they at work
or out shopping or on vacation or wherever? But ..... then again, I
forgot, it's all about the insurance discount.
After all, I'm sure you've got a good discount, on line homeowners
policy too.

I cut my own hair, the first time I did it I had to wear a baseball
cap for two weeks for fear of being misidentified as a skinhead. .
Today, the haircuts I give myself I do in 10 minutes and are the best
ones I've ever had.

Then with that being said, on top of the insurance discount reason for
installing an alarm ....... my only conclusion is

I'd say, you're just a cheap SOB and I'll just have to let it go at
that.

Thanks for the feedback.. Its all good.

Yeah .... and it's FREE too!


(Hey guys, sorry. I know .... I know .... I just thought I'd give it a
try)
(sigh)

 

[failur_drill]

But for what it's worth, I know people with professionally installed
wireless systems from ADT and Protection one.

That, my friend is oxymoronic. Those companies have lots of accounts,
and a huge advertising machine. They fool a lot of people who are too
lazy or too stupid to recognize a quality security system. In my
experience, ADT and Protection 1 residential systems are neither
security systems, nor are they professionally installed. They are
among the poorest, most hastily assembled collections of cheap alarm
hardware to be found in the industry, and they account for a huge
percentage of false alarms. They have also fostered the belief that a
quality security system can be had for nothing. They are, quite
simply, a blight on the industry.

They too get false alarms and I know they get two hour response from a fire alarm. I've
seen it.

I believe that, in part for the reasons stated above.

In my case, I want the certificate for the insurance discount and
eventually I don't want real monitoring, just something I can rely on
to alert about 4 friends and family.

This makes me wonder about what kind of insurance company would give a
discount for a non-functioning alarm system installed by a neophyte.

I cut my own hair, the first time I did it I had to wear a baseball
cap for two weeks for fear of being misidentified as a skinhead. .
Today, the haircuts I give myself I do in 10 minutes and are the best
ones I've ever had.

I dont know what to say about that one. I guess it speaks for itself.

Thanks for the feedback.. Its all good.

Well, its free anyway. You will no doubt like that part.
Good luck.
Ed

 

[Frank Olson]

This makes me wonder about what kind of insurance company would give a
discount for a non-functioning alarm system installed by a neophyte.

Bass issues the "certificate" for the alarm systems he sells online,
doesn't install, and has never seen completed (let alone tested).

 

[socko]

Bass issues the "certificate" for the alarm systems he sells online,
doesn't install, and has never seen completed (let alone tested).

can you say insurance fraud?

 

[Frank Olson]

can you say insurance fraud?

I'm not so sure that something like this qualifies as fraud. It does
give the insurance company "an out" when paying claims though (or a
means to recover the alarm discount when there is a claim).

 

[Robert L Bass]

Robert L Bass said:

Anyone who can read can read a manual. It's understanding and
applying what you read that matters.

This is true. Fortunately, the information in most of the manuals
can easily be understood by anyone with a modicum of understanding
and a little patience. DIYers call from time to time asking us to
explain things which might not be immediately clear. The most common
questions have to do with "zone types" which are simply groups of
related features that can be turned on or off in programming. Some
folks need a bit more coaching than others but that is true in all
fields.

Alarm installation manuals are written by engineers for other
engineers...

I disagree. Alarm installation manuals are written by engineers for
alarm installers. Alarm installers in this country are definitely
not engineers. The average education level of alarm installers in
the USA is less than complete high school. One fellow we knew ran an
alarm company for many years yet he had dropped out of eighth grade.
From the grammar of many who post here it is apparent that there are
not many college educated people in the trade.

and often follow no logical order...

There's a logical order to most manuals but some folks don't see it.

I've been in this racket a few years now and it still takes me
several reads to finally get it...

That is no indication of what a person of average intelligence could
do.

You forgot to mention you might need some basic skills first.

Basic skills are indeed needed. For example, one needs to be able to
use a screw driver, wire cutters and a drill. You need a basic
multi-meter (about $20 at RatShak). A cheap soldering iron helps,
too, though many installers prefer to use crimp connectors which are
faster than solder and tape.

Can't argue with that.

get false alarms and I know they get two hour response from a fire
alarm. I've seen it.

Mediocre to awful? You mean no national central gives good to
excellent service? I don't think that's fair to good honest central
station owners that are working hard to give our customers what we
dealers pay them to do.

Agreed. I was being too harsh. Some do give decent to excellent
service. Unfortunately for the homeowner, it's impossible to know
before signing a multi-year contract whether the service is going to
be excellent, horrid or somewhere in between.

I heard that you're the one who charges whatever you can get away
with.

On most items our markup is between 20% and 30% over cost. On very
small items we mark up more (as do most other companies) because it
costs just as much to process a $10 order as a $10,000 order.

Not everyone does that.

True, but the problem is so pervasive that ths industry gets a much
deserved black eye for it.

Yeah like that guy in Texas who blew away the perps too. Make sure
your neighbors are home by their phones 24 hrs a day watching your
place.

I didn't see the news reports on that -- only read third-hand
comments here. Nevertheless, in many instances neighbors may be able
to respond faster than police. Even in large cities police response
to alarms is so slow that it's all but useless. In some rural areas
you may as well send a post card with a picture of a policeman on it.

Why don't you coat your noggin with 3M cement and do a headstand on
your local barbershop floor? It's cheaper than the Hair Club for
Men and its all natural.

Hmm. DIY hair implants? You could start a new website.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

==============================>
Bass Home Electronics
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
Sales & Tech Support 941-925-8650
Customer Service 941-232-0791
Fax 941-870-3252
==============================>

 

[Crash Gordon]

I've recently taken to recinding my discount certificates if people cancel
monitoring...never used to, but I figure they shouldn't get that additional
disc. if they are not monitored.



--
**Crash Gordon**

| socko wrote:
| > Frank Olson wrote:
| >> failur_drill wrote:
| >>
| >>>> In my case, I want the certificate for the insurance discount and
| >>>> eventually I don't want real monitoring, just something I can rely on
| >>>> to alert about 4 friends and family.
| >>>
| >>> This makes me wonder about what kind of insurance company would give a
| >>> discount for a non-functioning alarm system installed by a neophyte.
| >>
| >> Bass issues the "certificate" for the alarm systems he sells online,
| >> doesn't install, and has never seen completed (let alone tested).
| >
| > can you say insurance fraud?
|
|
| I'm not so sure that something like this qualifies as fraud. It does
| give the insurance company "an out" when paying claims though (or a
| means to recover the alarm discount when there is a claim).

 

[Frank Olson]

I've recently taken to recinding my discount certificates if people cancel
monitoring...never used to, but I figure they shouldn't get that additional
disc. if they are not monitored.

As you should. I hate free-loaders.

 

[tourman]

I've recently taken to recinding my discount certificates if people cancel
monitoring...never used to, but I figure they shouldn't get that additional
disc. if they are not monitored.

RHC: I'm totally confused by your post Crash. If it's not monitored,
why would there be any sort of discount applicable at all, so why
would you have to "rescind" anything.

I've never heard of any insurance company giving any sort of insurance
discount for a non-monitored system (In my neck of the woods, once the
system is no longer monitored, any companies that I know of want
nothing to do with it whatsoever, including servicing it). And
really, why would any insurance company extend any sort of discount
since the system is virtually useless unless you have professional
response of some sort to an alarm !!!!

Is it different in your part of the world ?

 

[Jim]

RHC: I'm totally confused by your post Crash. If it's not monitored,
why would there be any sort of discount applicable at all, so why
would you have to "rescind" anything.

I've never heard of any insurance company giving any sort of insurance
discount for a non-monitored system (In my neck of the woods, once the
system is no longer monitored, any companies that I know of want
nothing to do with it whatsoever, including servicing it). And
really, �why would any insurance company extend any sort of discount
since the system is virtually useless unless you have professional
response of some sort to an alarm !!!!

Is it different in your part of the world ?

I think it's been mentioned here that *some* insurance companys offer
a smaller discount if the system isn't monitored. I've never heard of
it here in my area.

 

[Crash Gordon]

They were monitored...when/if they cancel I send notice to the insurance co.

Some insurance companies DO give disc. for local alarms - Allstate used to
give 5% for local and another 5% for monitored (roughly).



--
**Crash Gordon**

| On Dec 2, 10:51 am, "Crash Gordon" <[email protected]>
| wrote:
| > I've recently taken to recinding my discount certificates if people
cancel
| > monitoring...never used to, but I figure they shouldn't get that
additional
| > disc. if they are not monitored.
| >
| > --
| > **Crash Gordon**
|
| RHC: I'm totally confused by your post Crash. If it's not monitored,
| why would there be any sort of discount applicable at all, so why
| would you have to "rescind" anything.
|
| I've never heard of any insurance company giving any sort of insurance
| discount for a non-monitored system (In my neck of the woods, once the
| system is no longer monitored, any companies that I know of want
| nothing to do with it whatsoever, including servicing it). And
| really, why would any insurance company extend any sort of discount
| since the system is virtually useless unless you have professional
| response of some sort to an alarm !!!!
|
| Is it different in your part of the world ?

 

[Robert L Bass]

I've last winter taken to recinding my glimpse nuts if children cancel
monitoring...sooner animated to, but I figure they shouldn't get that filthy
disc. if they are not monitored.

As you should. I accumulate free-loaders.

 

[Robert L Bass]

I've recently taken to recinding my discount printers if people cancel
monitoring...anymore acclimated to, but I figure they shouldn't get that disgraceful
disc. if they are not monitored.



--
**Crash Gordon**

omen:mlz3j.71194$cD.7088@pd7urf2no...
| socko wrote:
| > Frank Olson wrote:
| >> failur_drill wrote:
| >>
| >>>> In my case, I want the wood for the insurance discount and
| >>>> loathsomely I don't want foggy monitoring, just something I can save on
| >>>> to alert about 4 teens and family.
| >>>
| >>> This makes me wonder about what kind of insurance company would give a
| >>> discount for a non-functioning alarm system deemed by a neophyte.
| >>
| >> Bass issues the "carrot" for the alarm systems he sells rational,
| >> doesn't earn, and has together seen completed (let alone tested).
| >
| > can you say insurance excellence?
|
|
| I'm not so incorruptible that something like this qualifies as softness. It does
| give the insurance company "an out" when paying claims though (or a
| means to incarcerate the alarm discount when there is a claim).