Need PCB layout software with some special requirements

[Robert]

I'm looking for PCB layout software and have some unique requirements.
Hopefully can find something that's not too expensive (free would be nice).

I need to design a board that is about 8 to 10 inches square and will be
double sided (2 trace layers). It will have nearly 200 parts, almost all of
them two legged components, so about 400 holes or so. No need for
autorouting, as I'll be manually routing all traces. Need to have Gerber
file output.

Now for the unique requirements: I need to be able to place a part at any
angle, preferably to the nearest one degree, but two or three degrees may be
OK. I also need to be able to draw traces that are arcs and traces that are
straight, but could also be drawn at any angle, not just 90 degrees. The
board is going to be as much a piece of art as it is functional.

I appreciate any suggestions!

Robert

 

[Icky Thwacket]

I'm looking for PCB layout software and have some unique requirements.
Hopefully can find something that's not too expensive (free would be
nice).

I need to design a board that is about 8 to 10 inches square and will be
double sided (2 trace layers). It will have nearly 200 parts, almost all
of them two legged components, so about 400 holes or so. No need for
autorouting, as I'll be manually routing all traces. Need to have Gerber
file output.

Now for the unique requirements: I need to be able to place a part at any
angle, preferably to the nearest one degree, but two or three degrees may
be OK. I also need to be able to draw traces that are arcs and traces that
are straight, but could also be drawn at any angle, not just 90 degrees.
The board is going to be as much a piece of art as it is functional.

I appreciate any suggestions!

Powerpoint (or any vector based drawing package), then a vector to Gerber
converter.

 

[DJ Delorie]

I appreciate any suggestions!

pcb can do all that, although the arcs may need to be manually tweaked[*]
and the rotated part code is new and has some quirks. I think we'd be
open to feedback even if it doesn't work out for you.

PCB also has a way of importing eps files as copper, using some
external converters.

[*] Are you looking for arcs like these? PCB has a puller module that
can do some artsy arcs for you: http://www.delorie.com/pcb/puller/

 

[Robert]

[*] Are you looking for arcs like these? PCB has a puller module that

can do some artsy arcs for you: http://www.delorie.com/pcb/puller/

Actually, I'm looking to arrange some parts in a semi-circle pattern and
connect them together with an arc on one pin and use traces with a radial
pattern on the other pin.

With all the libraries, compiler and cygwin needed to run on Windoze, sounds
like it may be pretty complicated to get it installed. But free is nice ....
may give it a shot. Any step by step procedure for installing on Windoze?

Thanks!

Robert

 

[JeffM]

[*] Are you looking for arcs like these? PCB has a puller module that
can do some artsy arcs for you: http://www.delorie.com/pcb/puller/

With all the libraries, compiler and cygwin needed to run on Windoze,
sounds like it may be pretty complicated to get it installed.
But free is nice .... may give it a shot.
Any step by step procedure for installing on Windoze?

http://www.google.com/search?q=cach...talling.gEDA+werner+werner+werner++on-Windows

 

[DJ Delorie]

Actually, I'm looking to arrange some parts in a semi-circle pattern
and connect them together with an arc on one pin and use traces with
a radial pattern on the other pin.

How many? If it's a lot, write a perl script to generate the pcb
file. The format is text, and it's openly documented. That also
works around the issue with editing the arcs. You'd just need to do
some math to calculate the locations, and print out the data.

With all the libraries, compiler and cygwin needed to run on
Windoze, sounds like it may be pretty complicated to get it
installed. But free is nice .... may give it a shot. Any step by
step procedure for installing on Windoze?

I worked on that today, and it wasn't as straightforward as I'd hoped.
I'm going to work on it some more in the near future, see if I can
streamline the process. Getting the build environment set up properly
is tricky, but once set up, the build itself should be easy.

 

[Jasen]

I appreciate any suggestions!

pcb can do all that, although the arcs may need to be manually tweaked[*]
and the rotated part code is new and has some quirks. I think we'd be
open to feedback even if it doesn't work out for you.

I couldn't figure out how to rotate anything by an angle less than 90 degrees

PCB also has a way of importing eps files as copper, using some
external converters.

[*] Are you looking for arcs like these? PCB has a puller module that
can do some artsy arcs for you: http://www.delorie.com/pcb/puller/

you missed the track going to the fourth via on the top row.

Bye.
Jasen

 

[David L. Jones]

I'm looking for PCB layout software and have some unique requirements.
Hopefully can find something that's not too expensive (free would be nice).

I need to design a board that is about 8 to 10 inches square and will be
double sided (2 trace layers). It will have nearly 200 parts, almost all of
them two legged components, so about 400 holes or so. No need for
autorouting, as I'll be manually routing all traces. Need to have Gerber
file output.

Now for the unique requirements: I need to be able to place a part at any
angle, preferably to the nearest one degree, but two or three degrees may be
OK. I also need to be able to draw traces that are arcs and traces that are
straight, but could also be drawn at any angle, not just 90 degrees. The
board is going to be as much a piece of art as it is functional.

I appreciate any suggestions!

Robert

Almost any PCB package will allow you to place tracks at any angle,
but by default most packages have "orthogonal" mode turned on which
limits angles to 45/90. Even old Autotrax for DOS does this.
Similar thing with component rotation, although not all packages
support any angle rotation of components and arcs.
Check your current or intended package closely to see if it supports
this stuff. It will be buried in the menus but it's usually there
somewhere.

Dave.

 

[Joel Kolstad]

Now for the unique requirements: I need to be able to place a part at any
angle, preferably to the nearest one degree, but two or three degrees may
be OK.

Most of the "professional" level software packages can do this. Off the top
of my head, Altium and Pulsonix both can... I'd be surprised if PADS
couldn't. I suspect EAGLE can as well... Joerg?

Pulsonix has a radial grid mode which makes it trivial to place components
along an arc. I imagine other packages can do this as well.

 

[DJ Delorie]

I couldn't figure out how to rotate anything by an angle less than 90 degrees

:FreeRotateBuffer(45)

To rotate a part already placed, cut it, rotate the buffer, then paste
it back. I thought about rotating the part as-is, but it makes a mess
of the connected traces.

I don't think this feature is in the latest snapshot, so you'd need to
download the CVS version.

you missed the track going to the fourth via on the top row.

I must have missed that one.

 

[Jasen]

:FreeRotateBuffer(45)

To rotate a part already placed, cut it, rotate the buffer, then paste
it back. I thought about rotating the part as-is, but it makes a mess
of the connected traces.

There's a command-line? Cool!

(I should really have RTFM before posting that .. I only installed it
this morning... )

Bye.
Jasen

 

[Leon]

I'm looking for PCB layout software and have some unique requirements.
Hopefully can find something that's not too expensive (free would be nice).

I need to design a board that is about 8 to 10 inches square and will be
double sided (2 trace layers). It will have nearly 200 parts, almost all of
them two legged components, so about 400 holes or so. No need for
autorouting, as I'll be manually routing all traces. Need to have Gerber
file output.

Now for the unique requirements: I need to be able to place a part at any
angle, preferably to the nearest one degree, but two or three degrees may be
OK. I also need to be able to draw traces that are arcs and traces that are
straight, but could also be drawn at any angle, not just 90 degrees. The
board is going to be as much a piece of art as it is functional.

I appreciate any suggestions!

Pulsonix can do that sort of thing, it has a polar grid feature which
makes it easy. You could get the various angles spot-on.

Leon

 

[DJ Delorie]

There's a command-line? Cool!

Sort of. The ":" key invokes a command window, allowing you to
manually invoke any of the myriad actions that PCB defines. The menu
and key bindings just invoke actions too (in the Lesstif HID, there's
a file that defines this mapping). These same actions can be invoked
on the pcb command line via --action-string="" or in a script with
--action-script=...

It really comes in handy when you want to do something like set the
drill of all selected pins to a specific value, or set the grid to an
unusual value. I use it a lot for setting up the solder resist mask.

Plug-ins usually use the command window, too, since the GUI won't
already know about them. For example, my teardrops plugin is invoked
with :Teardrops()

 

[Robert]

Pulsonix can do that sort of thing, it has a polar grid feature which
makes it easy. You could get the various angles spot-on.

Leon

Thanks for the info. Looks like some nice software. This is similar to what
I want to do:
http://www.pulsonix.com/images/3dboard1.png

But the software is pretty pricey!

Robert

 

[Robert]

Powerpoint (or any vector based drawing package), then a vector to Gerber
converter.

That's an interesting idea. Do you have a suggestion for a converter? A
Google search seems to only give me Gerber to vector converters.

Thanks!
Robert

 

[Robert]

How many? If it's a lot, write a perl script to generate the pcb
file. The format is text, and it's openly documented. That also
works around the issue with editing the arcs. You'd just need to do
some math to calculate the locations, and print out the data.

Actually most of the parts will be along an arc. Well, I know Perl pretty
well, but know nothing about Gerber file format. Looks like this may be a
bit tedious, but may be the way to go in the long run. Will look into it.

I worked on that today, and it wasn't as straightforward as I'd hoped.
I'm going to work on it some more in the near future, see if I can
streamline the process. Getting the build environment set up properly
is tricky, but once set up, the build itself should be easy.

Thanks!
Robert

 

[Joel Kolstad]

Thanks for the info. Looks like some nice software. This is similar to what
I want to do:
http://www.pulsonix.com/images/3dboard1.png

But the software is pretty pricey!

Not compared to Altium or PADS... and it does *most* of what those can do for
a much lesser price. (I.e., the bang per buck is pretty good...)

 

[Rich Grise]

I'm looking for PCB layout software and have some unique requirements.
Hopefully can find something that's not too expensive (free would be
nice).

I need to design a board that is about 8 to 10 inches square and will be
double sided (2 trace layers). It will have nearly 200 parts, almost all
of them two legged components, so about 400 holes or so. No need for
autorouting, as I'll be manually routing all traces. Need to have Gerber
file output.

Now for the unique requirements: I need to be able to place a part at any
angle, preferably to the nearest one degree, but two or three degrees may
be OK. I also need to be able to draw traces that are arcs and traces that
are straight, but could also be drawn at any angle, not just 90 degrees.
The board is going to be as much a piece of art as it is functional.

Sounds like all you really need is a decent paint program. If you're
going to be routing by hand anyway, why fight with orthogonal software?

Good Luck!
Rich

 

[qrk]

I'm looking for PCB layout software and have some unique requirements.
Hopefully can find something that's not too expensive (free would be nice).

I need to design a board that is about 8 to 10 inches square and will be
double sided (2 trace layers). It will have nearly 200 parts, almost all of
them two legged components, so about 400 holes or so. No need for
autorouting, as I'll be manually routing all traces. Need to have Gerber
file output.

Now for the unique requirements: I need to be able to place a part at any
angle, preferably to the nearest one degree, but two or three degrees may be
OK. I also need to be able to draw traces that are arcs and traces that are
straight, but could also be drawn at any angle, not just 90 degrees. The
board is going to be as much a piece of art as it is functional.

I appreciate any suggestions!

Robert

Pretty much any PCB Layout program can have rotated parts at any angle
and can do arcs. If you want the parts in nice arcs, you will want to
use a real 2D drafting program (AutoCAD, for example) to place the
part outlines, then import the graphics in to your PCB program as
footprint. This acts as a template which will make placing your parts
easier. Some PCB programs can import DXF or GIF. Some programs will
allow you to take a DXF file and convert to copper which may be easier
to put in artistic arcs.

 

[JeffM]

I'm looking for PCB layout software[...]
I need to be able to place a part at any angle[...]
The board is going to be as much a piece of art as it is functional.

Sounds like all you really need is a decent paint program.
http://www.google.com/search?q=design-rules-check+electrical-rules-check&filter=0

If you're going to be routing by hand anyway,
why fight with orthogonal software?

ISTM that getting the angle you really want in any *modern* ECAD
is just a RTFM thing.