Need multimeter: Do inexpensive ones allow testing through insulatedwire?

[[email protected]]

To please a couple of the more pedantic characters in this thread, in
the interest of full disclosure I thought I'd explain how it is I am
hardly inexperienced.

I am installing a light fixture.  When I took the old light fixture
off I noticed in the ceiling that there was a black wire that came in
and was tied to another black wire that continued the run.  From my DC
days I know the black wire to be ground, so I spliced into it and
attached the light's green wire.

I think the fixture is faulty because when I connected it's white wire
to the white wire in the ceiling I felt a little funny.  But my
circuit breaker is also faulty because it threw right away.
Downstairs I couldn't get the breaker to stay in one position, it was
that worn, so I put a self-tapping screw direction through the top of
the switch to hold in the on position.

Light works!  But buzzes & flickers horribly.  Lots of noise in the
breaker box too.  I'm blaming the switch upstairs....it's the only
thing left.  I know that it isn't a 3 way switch because it only goes
two positions, so I'm not quite sure what is going on here.  I can't
even guess what the red wire up there is for.

There's always some wire left behind in all my installations....you
know how it is.

Please ignore my previous reply. You MUST be a troll.

 

[David L. Jones]

To please a couple of the more pedantic characters in this thread, in
the interest of full disclosure I thought I'd explain how it is I am
hardly inexperienced.

Sorry to say, but based on your adventures below, you are not only very
inexperienced but worse, you are applying what knowledge you have
incorrectly. You really shouldn't be playing with this stuff.

I am installing a light fixture. When I took the old light fixture
off I noticed in the ceiling that there was a black wire that came in
and was tied to another black wire that continued the run. From my DC
days I know the black wire to be ground, so I spliced into it and
attached the light's green wire.

That is horribly WRONG!

I think the fixture is faulty because when I connected it's white wire
to the white wire in the ceiling I felt a little funny.

As in you felt a shock??

But my
circuit breaker is also faulty because it threw right away.

No, it's probably just doing it's job!
I do hope you have an earth leakage circuit breaker installed too. If not
you should get an electrician to install one, it could save your life.

Downstairs I couldn't get the breaker to stay in one position, it was
that worn, so I put a self-tapping screw direction through the top of
the switch to hold in the on position.

OMG, you are seriously asking for trouble.

Light works! But buzzes & flickers horribly. Lots of noise in the
breaker box too. I'm blaming the switch upstairs....it's the only
thing left. I know that it isn't a 3 way switch because it only goes
two positions, so I'm not quite sure what is going on here. I can't
even guess what the red wire up there is for.

Then seriously you should not be touching this stuff, it will kill you
and/or your family.
Get an electrican in to fix it all and install an earth leakage circuit
breaker.

There's always some wire left behind in all my installations....you
know how it is.

No, no one who knows what they are doing "knows how it is".

Dave.

 

[Bob Engelhardt]

Please ignore my previous reply. You MUST be a troll.

Indeed! I'm thinking that the original post was too, but it was a bit
subtle to catch. So, he quit beating around the bush:
"From my DC days I know the black wire to be ground, ..."
"... self-tapping screw direction through the top of the [breaker] ..."
"... buzzes & flickers horribly. Lots of noise in the breaker box too."
"There's always some wire left behind ..."

Nothing subtle about those!

Bob

 

[Thomas G. Marshall]

Please ignore my previous reply. You MUST be a troll.

Indeed!  I'm thinking that the original post was too, but it was a bit
subtle to catch.  So, he quit beating around the bush:
"From my DC days I know the black wire to be ground, ..."
"... self-tapping screw direction through the top of the [breaker] ..."
"... buzzes & flickers horribly.  Lots of noise in the breaker box too."
"There's always some wire left behind ..."

Nothing subtle about those!

Bob

No troll here. My follow up post was indeed intended as directed
sarcasm. I came up with as preposterous a story as I could so it
could be only interpreted as a statement from me to a select few: you
wish to engage in unwarranted extrapolation, then I shall provide you
with what *should* have warranted your reply.

Nope: nothing subtle at all in my fictional follow up. Had it BEEN
subtle it would have wasted time with responses. Ironcially, it
wasn't meant as a time-waster either: more of something to respond to
with "OMG, ok, ok, I get your point, your initial post wasn't that
bad." I'm more than surprised that it was responded to with sincerety
at all----the sarcastic intent being as blatant as it was.

Just out of curiosity though: If someone were dense enough to try to
lock a shorted circuit closed in the breaker box, does that heavy
master 200 amp switch act as a breaker and throw? Or is that merely a
switch and not a breaker?

 

[Thomas G. Marshall]

Indeed!  I'm thinking that the original post was too, but it was a bit
subtle to catch.  So, he quit beating around the bush:
"From my DC days I know the black wire to be ground, ..."
"... self-tapping screw direction through the top of the [breaker] ..."
"... buzzes & flickers horribly.  Lots of noise in the breaker box too."
"There's always some wire left behind ..."

Nothing subtle about those!

Bob

No troll here.  My follow up post was indeed intended as directed
sarcasm.  I came up with as preposterous a story as I could so it
could be only interpreted as a statement from me to a select few: you
wish to engage in unwarranted extrapolation, then I shall provide you
with what *should* have warranted your reply.

Nope: nothing subtle at all in my fictional follow up.  Had it BEEN
subtle it would have wasted time with responses.  Ironcially, it
wasn't meant as a time-waster either: more of something to respond to
with "OMG, ok, ok, I get your point, your initial post wasn't that
bad."  I'm more than surprised that it was responded to with sincerety
at all----the sarcastic intent being as blatant as it was.

Just out of curiosity though: If someone were dense enough to try to
lock a shorted circuit closed in the breaker box, does that heavy
master 200 amp switch act as a breaker and throw?  Or is that merely a
switch and not a breaker?

nah, nevermind. I got the suggestions for the MM I needed. Thanks
all.

 

[Thomas G. Marshall]

To please a couple of the more pedantic characters in this thread, in
the interest of full disclosure I thought I'd explain how it is I am
hardly inexperienced.

I am installing a light fixture.  When I took the old light fixture
off I noticed in the ceiling that there was a black wire that came in
and was tied to another black wire that continued the run.  From my DC
days I know the black wire to be ground, so I spliced into it and
attached the light's green wire.

I think the fixture is faulty because when I connected it's white wire
to the white wire in the ceiling I felt a little funny.  But my
circuit breaker is also faulty because it threw right away.
Downstairs I couldn't get the breaker to stay in one position, it was
that worn, so I put a self-tapping screw direction through the top of
the switch to hold in the on position.

Light works!  But buzzes & flickers horribly.  Lots of noise in the
breaker box too.  I'm blaming the switch upstairs....it's the only
thing left.  I know that it isn't a 3 way switch because it only goes
two positions, so I'm not quite sure what is going on here.  I can't
even guess what the red wire up there is for.

There's always some wire left behind in all my installations....you
know how it is.

Apparently it was missed that this was pure fiction.

 

[Thomas G. Marshall]

Please ignore my previous reply. You MUST be a troll.

No troll here. My follow up post was indeed intended as directed
sarcasm. I came up with as preposterous a story as I could so it
could be only interpreted as a statement from me to a select few: you
wish to engage in unwarranted extrapolation, then I shall provide you
with what *should* have warranted your reply.

Nope: nothing subtle at all in my fictional follow up. Had it BEEN
subtle it would have wasted time with responses. Ironcially, it
wasn't meant as a time-waster either: more of something to respond to
with "OMG, ok, ok, I get your point, your initial post wasn't that
bad." I'm more than surprised that it was responded to with sincerety
at all----the sarcastic intent being as blatant as it was.

 

[[email protected]]

No troll here.  My follow up post was indeed intended as directed
sarcasm.  I came up with as preposterous a story as I could so it
could be only interpreted as a statement from me to a select few: you
wish to engage in unwarranted extrapolation, then I shall provide you
with what *should* have warranted your reply.

Nope: nothing subtle at all in my fictional follow up.  Had it BEEN
subtle it would have wasted time with responses.  Ironcially, it
wasn't meant as a time-waster either: more of something to respond to
with "OMG, ok, ok, I get your point, your initial post wasn't that
bad."  I'm more than surprised that it was responded to with sincerety
at all----the sarcastic intent being as blatant as it was.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Suddenly Proteus and Archemides Lever and some others seem quite
acceptable compared to this guy. jeez....try to earnestly help a guy
from killing himself and get sarcastic comments in return. Anyone
involved with electrical installations who does not know what a tong
ammeter (clamp-on) is should not be dealing with electrical
installations. And as far as bringing Usenet into disrepute...you do
not need any help from me...you're doing just fine.

 

[Thomas G. Marshall]

Suddenly Proteus and Archemides Lever and some others seem quite
acceptable compared to this guy. jeez....try to earnestly help a guy
from killing himself and get sarcastic comments in return. Anyone
involved with electrical installations who does not know what a tong
ammeter (clamp-on) is should not be dealing with electrical
installations. And as far as bringing Usenet into disrepute...you do
not need any help from me...you're doing just fine.

The WAY to earnestly help someone is not to adopt an admonishing tone
without warrant. You launched off with a lecture based upon two
falsehoods: 1. that I implied that I had not consulted proper manuals
before doing anything (you had not yet heard a bit of what I had yet
done) and 2. that not knowing the precise term "clamp-on" somehow
invalidates someone from installing something.

Your response didn't say "If this is something you haven't done
before, then you may like this site <link>". It used words to the
effect of "Someone who knows what you do is asking for trouble". When
you do not even know what I knew.

Your response had NOTHING to do with keeping someone else alive. It
had EVERYTHING to do with posturing, and posturing alone. Hence the
tone you chose.

 

[Thomas G. Marshall]

   Too stupid to live.

Resorting to ad hominem? Ok asshole, it's what you seem to
understand.

 

[Thomas G. Marshall]

Because of the long thread. I forget who claimed not to be in over his
head. Obviously, someone was in over their capability.

And THAT statement solidifies your capability to jump to conclusions.
Running to posturing first and asking questions later.....Again.

 

[[email protected]]

The WAY to earnestly help someone is not to adopt an admonishing tone
without warrant.  You launched off with a lecture based upon two
falsehoods: 1. that I implied that I had not consulted proper manuals
before doing anything (you had not yet heard a bit of what I had yet
done) and 2. that not knowing the precise term "clamp-on" somehow
invalidates someone from installing something.

Your response didn't say "If this is something you haven't done
before, then you may like this site <link>".  It used words to the
effect of "Someone who knows what you do is asking for trouble".  When
you do not even know what I knew.

Your response had NOTHING to do with keeping someone else alive.  It
had EVERYTHING to do with posturing, and posturing alone.  Hence the
tone you chose.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

OK then. You win. Please continue working on electrical installations.
The sooner you get electrocuted, the sooner you'll be off this group.
Just how many people do you really want to brass off? So far you're
doing really well. Calling people AH's is the icing on the cake.
usually when people join a group (usenet or otherwise) they tend to be
a bit circumspect out of respect for the group. No such reservations
with you. No Siree!!! straight in and cuss people out..people who,
like it or not, are more knowledgable than you and really would like
to save ur sorry arse. Well that's about it from me...you got ur
answer...any 1st year apprentice would have told you what a tong
ammeter was...but you displayed your ignorance and then started with
the insults when people were trying to help you. Most of us do not
play games like you obviously do. We are mostly professionals or time
served tradesmen or engineering academics and for the most part we act
professionally. Electricity CAN KILL!!! it's not a game for
posturing!...GET IT!!!??? If you do not know the rules...then don't
play!

 

[David L. Jones]

OK then. You win. Please continue working on electrical installations.
The sooner you get electrocuted, the sooner you'll be off this group.
Just how many people do you really want to brass off? So far you're
doing really well.

I think he's done spectacularly well!
There should a prize for this. A Golden PLONK award perhaps?

Dave.

 

[gearhead]

And THAT statement solidifies your capability to jump to conclusions.
Running to posturing first and asking questions later.....Again.

These guys are continuing to address your usenet offenses in terms of
electrical safety, but it has nothing to do with safety now -- it's
really your impolitic approach.
It's not the first time a guy has gone to the barricades over his ego
and hurled bombs and brickbats at all and sundry.
Doesn't make you a bad man.
Believe it or not, when this has blown over you can still come back to
this group and enter into communications, initiating or participating
in threads that have rational contributions from various group
members.
Don't let the slashing drive you away. You gave as good as you got,
so let it go for now.

 

[[email protected]]

These guys are continuing to address your usenet offenses in terms of
electrical safety, but it has nothing to do with safety now -- it's
really your impolitic approach.
It's not the first time a guy has gone to the barricades over his ego
and hurled bombs and brickbats at all and sundry.
Doesn't make you a bad man.
Believe it or not, when this has blown over you can still come back to
this group and enter into communications, initiating or participating
in threads that have rational contributions from various group
members.
Don't let the slashing drive you away.  You gave as good as you got,
so let it go for now.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

THAT IS JUST WHAT THE LAST GUY THAT GOT REBOOTED FOR RESPONDING TO THE
FLAMES SAID

IT IS ALL A MATTER OF SEEING THE SEQUENCE OF EVENTS THE FLAMING TROLL
IS USUALLY THE ONE ACCUSING AND WISHING OTHERS OIFF THE CHANNEL

THE RECOURSE OF A POWERFUL LEADER THAT THINKS H HAS FOOLISH FRIENDS

YOU RIGHT IT'S BEST LEFT ALL ALONE AND LET GO

I AM PROTEUS

 

[Thomas G. Marshall]

OK then. You win. Please continue working on electrical installations.
The sooner you get electrocuted, the sooner you'll be off this group.

I have said nothing that shows carelessness on any kind. I *do* the
research. I *do* pay attention to the wiring diagrams. I don't do a
THING electrical without shutting down the area and testing everything
in sight. There is nothing that I have done that is the slightest
suspect (other than the spoof I wrote to prove a point---FICTION to
supply you with the example of what *would* justify your initial
suspicions).

You seem to think that it is ok to lecture people as if they're
idiots; that it's ok to pontificate and further admonish as if the
person was doing something without forethought. All I did was ask
something innocuous and assumptions about my fitness for doing *any*
projects started flying. Because I didn't know of the term "clamp-
on". That's how this started.

And I won't put up with your attitude. Not in usenet. Not IRL.

Just how many people do you really want to brass off? So far you're
doing really well. Calling people AH's is the icing on the cake.

Pay more than convenient attention to the causality. That was in
direct response to "too stupid to live". Ad hominem for ad hominem.
That's not something I will put up with either.

 

[Thomas G. Marshall]

These guys are continuing to address your usenet offenses in terms of
electrical safety, but it has nothing to do with safety now -- it's
really your impolitic approach.
It's not the first time a guy has gone to the barricades over his ego
and hurled bombs and brickbats at all and sundry.

No, targetted clearly to a few.

Doesn't make you a bad man.
Believe it or not, when this has blown over you can still come back to
this group and enter into communications, initiating or participating
in threads that have rational contributions from various group
members.
Don't let the slashing drive you away.  You gave as good as you got,
so let it go for now.

*Almost* wise. You're using an old arguing technique. This attempt
at the high road also served you to vehicle to slip in a couple digs
under the disguise of the appeasement. *MY* impolitic approach? *MY*
ego? There is enormous ego in finger pointing toward me using words
to the effect of "please at least do a modicum of research". As *IF*
not knowing the term "clamp-on" means I haven't.

I have no worries about coming back and asking questions. It seems
fairly well understood now that I won't tolerate people launching into
assumption based effrontery.

You want to pretend that people don't know a thing and deserve to be
spoken down to without warrant, then you get what you deserve.

 

[Thomas G. Marshall]

Guy's I'm done with this thread. Have fun, blast away.

In any event, thanks for the product suggestions.

 

[Thomas G. Marshall]

Guys, I'm done with this thread. Have fun, blast away.

In any event, thanks for the product suggestions.

 

[David L. Jones]

No, targetted clearly to a few.

You shouldn't have targeted anyone, that's your problem.
A sensible person posting a basic question like that would have simply
ignored the advice or comments they did not like.

*Almost* wise. You're using an old arguing technique. This attempt
at the high road also served you to vehicle to slip in a couple digs
under the disguise of the appeasement. *MY* impolitic approach? *MY*
ego?

Yep, and Yep.

There is enormous ego in finger pointing toward me using words
to the effect of "please at least do a modicum of research".
As *IF* not knowing the term "clamp-on" means I haven't.

Then you must be really bad at it.

You showed more than just not knowing what such an instrument is called, you
clearly didn't know anything about basic AC theory or how a basic test
instrument like a clamp meter works. This gave people reason to question the
safety up-front of you using a such device to do your own work.

You are just having a whinge because you don't want people to think you are
massively inexperienced (there's nothing wrong with that of course, that why
this .basics group exists).

Play nice next time.

Dave.