Need help running USB web cam over large distances

[[email protected]]

I'm a PHP web developer working with Linux by day, and I tinker with
side projects at home to see if I can get something off the ground. I
need someone to give me advice on a webcam project where I need to use
wired, not wireless, cameras to build a video surveillance arrangement
that can be used in large offices. I got excited about the idea when I
found out that my office paid $30K for their video surveillance system.

The first part of this is the wiring of the video cam. I understand
that USB requires repeater extender things to run it over long
distances, and these may require an AC input. But has anyone
experimented with switching the signal to CAT 5 and then putting it
back onto USB again? Shouldn't it then be able to go longer distances?

Before I start tearing apart a web cam's USB cable in my garage to do
this experiment to see how long the video signal can run with CAT5, I'd
like to know if someone has advice on this.

 

[Vidar Løkken]

I suggest you get some terms straigned out...

The first part of this is the wiring of the video cam. I understand
that USB requires repeater extender things to run it over long
distances, and these may require an AC input. But has anyone
experimented with switching the signal to CAT 5 and then putting it
back onto USB again? Shouldn't it then be able to go longer distances?

Cat5 aint a signal. It is a cable. The cable can carry whatever signal
you want, but it is a twisted pair (TP) cable, thus not suited for some
signals.
USB is _not_ made for TP cable, and would probably give worse results
than using a loooong usb cable.

Before I start tearing apart a web cam's USB cable in my garage to do
this experiment to see how long the video signal can run with CAT5, I'd
like to know if someone has advice on this.

It ain't a video signal as such. It is digital information, whatever
this information is a video format, a word document, sound or whatever,
it has to be undamaged when arriving into the pc.

What I guess you're looking for is some way to convert the USB signals
to Ethernet signals, which can run 250M on CAT5E cable by the
specification.

 

[George]

Before I start tearing apart a web cam's USB cable in my
garage to do this experiment to see how long the video
signal can run with CAT5, I'd like to know if someone
has advice on this.

There are devices for converting USB to a form which allows
transmission over CAT5 over fairly long distances. Here's
one (the URL probably won't wrap right. Sorry.):

http://www.usbgear.com/computer_cable_details.cfm?sku=171632
&cats=137&catid=137%2C140%2C120

Extends any USB device up to 150 feet away the computer.
The mini USB-2 extender extends any USB device including
keyboard and mouse up to 150 feet away from the location
of your computer, eliminating the 17.5 feet distance
limitation of USB. The mini USB-2 send and receive units
use one CAT-5 cable for extension and is optimized for
applications where two devices, such as the keyboard and
mouse, must be operated remotely. Category 5-cables to
go with this device Starting from $7.06 for 75FT. Cable
How it works: The mini USB-2 extender send unit is
placed next to the computer. A USB cable connects the
computer to the mini USB-2 extender send unit. A
category-5 (CAT-5) cable is used to link the mini USB-2
send unit to the mini USB-2 receive unit. The USB
peripherals are connected to the mini USB-2 receiver
unit. The USB-2 extender can even be used to extend
surveilance cameras for security purposes.

Google on USB extension, or USB extender.

 

[CWatters]

The first part of this is the wiring of the video cam. I understand
that USB requires repeater extender things to run it over long
distances, and these may require an AC input. But has anyone
experimented with switching the signal to CAT 5 and then putting it
back onto USB again? Shouldn't it then be able to go longer distances?

Why not use network based cameras?
http://www.tomsnetworking.com/Reviews-68-ProdID-AXIS205.php

 

[CWatters]

If you want to mess with sending video over CAT 5 (eg rather than digital
data)...
http://www.smarthomeusa.com/Shop/Home-Network/channelvision/CV-Baluns/Item/VBS78-SP/

 

[Watson A.Name - \Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\]

I'm a PHP web developer working with Linux by day, and I tinker with
side projects at home to see if I can get something off the ground. I
need someone to give me advice on a webcam project where I need to use
wired, not wireless, cameras to build a video surveillance arrangement
that can be used in large offices. I got excited about the idea when I
found out that my office paid $30K for their video surveillance system.

The first part of this is the wiring of the video cam. I understand
that USB requires repeater extender things to run it over long
distances, and these may require an AC input. But has anyone
experimented with switching the signal to CAT 5 and then putting it
back onto USB again? Shouldn't it then be able to go longer distances?

Before I start tearing apart a web cam's USB cable in my garage to do
this experiment to see how long the video signal can run with CAT5, I'd
like to know if someone has advice on this.

Well, you can stop at 300 feet or 90 meters. If the cat5 has been
installed to the EIA/TIA 568 specifications, it will not be longer than
that. Of course you can pull a fast one, and put a jumper cable from
jack to jack at the patch panel. That will make the maximum 181 meters
( about1 meter for the patch cable). Or you could just say that your
product must have a gizmo to amplify the signal at the patch panel to do
that. Make more money that way. ;-)

I did a google search for cat5 security camera and got 90 thousand hits,
so it looks like you've got a lot of competition. :-(

 

[[email protected]]

Why not use network based cameras?
http://www.tomsnetworking.com/Reviews-68-ProdID-AXIS205.php

More and more, Colin, this makes sense to me and the Axis 205 seems
like the best option out there on the market right now. I just can't
seem to get these cheap USB cameras to do simultaneous video and no one
else does either.

I see it comes with a built-in web server and built-in MPEG display
playback. The question I have now is how can I download Axis 205 data
from the unit to a PC so that it can store this and allow a security
guard to review it backwards in time? Can I use a command-line Linux
tool for that?

 

[CWatters]

I see it comes with a built-in web server and built-in MPEG display
playback. The question I have now is how can I download Axis 205 data
from the unit to a PC so that it can store this and allow a security
guard to review it backwards in time?

You would have to look at the manual. There are many program that can
record streaming video but I suspect this camera may come with something to
do just that.

 

[CWatters]

You would have to look at the manual. There are many program that can
record streaming video but I suspect this camera may come with something to
do just that.

Actually now that I've scanned the review I see it says...

"Axis does not offer the ability to directly capture video streams from the
205. However Axis does offer the "Axis Camera Recorder" application, which
allows you to capture and save video. This is professional security level
software and, according to what we were able to find out, it is not
currently compatible with the 205. Since the software is expensive and the
205 is an entry level product, don't expect support for this feature anytime
soon."

In which case you might want to look at other models from their range or
other manufacturers products.

 

[[email protected]]

Darn. I knew there had to be a catch. Any other camera would be out of
my price range for this very inexpensive (but functional) system I'm
trying to build. I was just getting frustrated with simultaneous live
video from multiple USB streams. Looks like I'll have to just do
snapshot downloads, and if I'm going to have to do that, I might as
well use USB cams because they're just functional enough for my needs
and are extremely cheap. You can get a fairly good one for $36 these
days. I've noticed when I look at security packages, they are only
showing the image about every 1 to 3 seconds, which should be good
enough for me.

I guess I can use streamer or gstreamer to grab snapshots from the USB
cams. This creates a PNG which I can then display in a web browser. I
can create a web page which updates a frame every two seconds,
downloading a new PNG. Or, if I can find a Java applet, I can use that
to load the PNG every so many seconds. If anyone can recommend a good,
free Java applet for that, please let me know.

 

[[email protected]]

days. I've noticed when I look at security packages, they are only
showing the image about every 1 to 3 seconds, which should be good
enough for me.

Went into a grocery store today and saw MPEG4 cameras plugged into a
quad multiplexer. The images looked about 2 or 3 per second,
simultaneously, on each frame of the quad screen. I can do just as good
by using the Linux "streamer" command-line tool with $25 USB cams and
CAT5 USB extenders, hooking it all through a Linux PHP website. I've
got a demo started today with 2 cams, but I haven't tested the CAT5 USB
extender jacks yet. I'll probably purchase that this week and will do
my 100 foot test to see if the images still work.

I'm going to be on the lookout for a Java applet (or may build one
myself) or Shockwave file that loads a JPEG image every so many seconds
from the web server.

 

[CWatters]

Darn. I knew there had to be a catch. Any other camera would be out of
my price range for this very inexpensive (but functional) system

You might find cheaper..

Wired network cam $94
Wireless network cam $149

http://kingofgadgets.com/Products/security.html

 

[[email protected]]

You might find cheaper..

Wired network cam $94
Wireless network cam $149

http://kingofgadgets.com/Products/security.html

Turns out that someone has figured out how to do video extraction from
the Axis 205 from Linux command line:

wget -q -m -N -nd -L -l2 -Y off --http-user=root --http-passwd=*****
"http://192.168.29.46/jpg/image.jpg"

 

[Tomi Holger Engdahl]

I'm a PHP web developer working with Linux by day, and I tinker with
side projects at home to see if I can get something off the ground. I
need someone to give me advice on a webcam project where I need to use
wired, not wireless, cameras to build a video surveillance arrangement
that can be used in large offices. I got excited about the idea when I
found out that my office paid $30K for their video surveillance system.

The first part of this is the wiring of the video cam. I understand
that USB requires repeater extender things to run it over long
distances, and these may require an AC input. But has anyone
experimented with switching the signal to CAT 5 and then putting it
back onto USB again? Shouldn't it then be able to go longer distances?

There are some products that claim to be able run USB signals through CAT5
UTP wiring. They go somehow longer distance than normal USB cables,
but I don't think they can extend the maximum lengthof USB network.

If you really want some longer distance than few meters, I would
recommend to use some technology that is designed to work over
the needed distance in the beginning, rather than pushing the
USB techology that is originally designed for short distances only.

Technologies that are suitable for longer distances over CAT5 wiring
are webcams with Ethernet interface (normal Ethernet networking
limits) and CCTV cameras designed for UTP wiring signal transfer
connected to video digitizing card/device on the computer end
(works well up to several hundred meters).

Before I start tearing apart a web cam's USB cable in my garage to do
this experiment to see how long the video signal can run with CAT5, I'd
like to know if someone has advice on this.

There are real technical reasons why USB cables have their
distance limits, and why the cable used with USB devices is
different that CAT5 cable. CAT5 cable is not the optimum
medium for USB signals... Maybe not worth to take apart
an expensive web camera.