More negative than actual ground?

[Even Brisco]

Is there any way, either in theory or practice, to produce a voltage
than is _negative_ in potential with respect the Earth's surface?

Pleae note, I am not referring to the relative ground of something
like a plus and minus power supply. But rather to extract electrons
from the ground.

I am also not looking for "free energy", as I realize energy would
need to be expended to achieve this ... in effect, another kind of
generator.

Before someone tells me it cannot be done, I would point out that
natural lgihting involves just such a reverse flow. It is invisible to
the eye but has been photographed with UV sensitive film. I believe
the term is "convective current".

Fire away!

Evan Brisco

 

[Even Brisco]

Stick a wire in the ground, stick the + end of a 9V battey to it.
Voila, the - end of the battery is now -9V wrt earth.... What's the
big deal?

Perhaps I did not state my question correctly.

In the arrangement you describe, the battery is still the source of
the electrons, or negative voltage.

I want the EARTH to be the source.

Evan Brisco

 

[John Devereux]

Perhaps I did not state my question correctly.

In the arrangement you describe, the battery is still the source of
the electrons, or negative voltage.

I want the EARTH to be the source.

If the earth is sourcing the electrons, then the voltage they are
flowing towards will be positive won't it? So reverse the battery. A
high enough voltage would "extract electrons from the ground". Connect
the battery ground wire some distance away and they will be fresh
electrons, not recycled ones.

 

[Martin Brown]

Perhaps I did not state my question correctly.

In the arrangement you describe, the battery is still the source of
the electrons, or negative voltage.

I want the EARTH to be the source.

Friction.

Rub the ground with something that is more attractive to electrons than
a typical basalt, silica or quartz granite. Same as polishing a glass
rod with silk to charge it with static electricity.

Your question is ambiguous but it looks like you are asking about the
triboelectric effect. eg

http://science.howstuffworks.com/transport/engines-equipment/vdg1.htm

Most rocks containing quartz will behave roughly like glass.

There may be severe leakage problems with damp earth.

Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[Even Brisco]

The answer is yes. Use a circuit loop with a battery. The total
voltage added up aroundthe loop is zero volts, following kirkoffs
voltage law. Collect the electrons from Earth, send them into the
battery positive terminal by using electrostatic attraction. Connect
the battery negative terminal to complete the loop by using a wire
from the battery to the Earth. Electricity flows in the loop in the
form of current. The electrons leave the Earth, go to the battery and
go through a chemical reaction in the battery. After they are involved
in that reaction atoms send the electrons into the wire andd then on
to the Earth to be cycled again in the loop.

If the Earth is then the "source" of the ealectrons, does this imply
the battery would last indefinitely?

Evan Brisco

 

[Rich Grise]

Is there any way, either in theory or practice, to produce a voltage
than is _negative_ in potential with respect the Earth's surface?

Pleae note, I am not referring to the relative ground of something
like a plus and minus power supply. But rather to extract electrons
from the ground.

I am also not looking for "free energy", as I realize energy would
need to be expended to achieve this ... in effect, another kind of
generator.

Before someone tells me it cannot be done, I would point out that
natural lgihting involves just such a reverse flow. It is invisible to
the eye but has been photographed with UV sensitive film. I believe
the term is "convective current".

Fire away!

They've been doing this for decades:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wimshurst_machine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_de_Graaff_generator
and even AC:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_coil

Hope This Helps!
Rich

 

[legg]

Perhaps I did not state my question correctly.

In the arrangement you describe, the battery is still the source of
the electrons, or negative voltage.

I want the EARTH to be the source.

Evan Brisco

Electron movement implies some sort of work being done, or energy
being stored or released.

Lightning? The sun delivers heat causing atmospheric pressue
differentials that cause air movement that picks up static charges
that, in lightning, are suddenly released. The earth acts as both a
passive conductor and a terminal of sttrage in this case. The earth
doesn't have to be involved in any specific lightning discharge - they
occur much more frequently between charged spaces in the atmosphere.

If you consider the rotating earth (iron core) as an element in an
electromagnetic or electrodynamic generator, you might couple out some
of the spin energy as current flow in a properly-oriented conductor.
The ionosphere may be one example. ELF field generation is probably
another.

RL

 

[Tom Del Rosso]

If the Earth is then the "source" of the ealectrons, does this imply
the battery would last indefinitely?

Batteries don't go dead because you used up their electrons. You use up its
potential energy.

What you are really asking is, can you make the earth the source of the
potential energy. For that you need to rearrange certain chemicals of the
earth in proximity to each other. But then you would have made a battery.