Minimum Humidity for long term storage of computer equipment?

[Lostgallifreyan]

I already bought other means. Rubbermaid and hermetically sealed
plastic bags.

Rubbermaid? That doesn't sound quite right. >

 

[Peter Olcott]

Rubbermaid? That doesn't sound quite right. >

Its like another brand of tupperware.

 

[Ken Finney]

Argh, wrong, Not NASA. The Army will know, Of Course!!

There *must* be a bunch of MIL-STD/Procedure(s) for storing electronic
equipment for many years (and still be sure that it will blow up when
switched on ;-) That's what the army *do*.

Due to the lack of a process to do exactly what this person is trying to do,
the Army, Navy, and several other entities helped create GEIA-STD-0003 which
was just released this year (I'm one of the main authors). Unfortunately,
it is an industry standard and not available for free. Three things are
necessary store stuff in bags accordance with the standard. Really good
bags ("bag shall be in accordance with MIL-PRF-81705, TYPE I"). It sounds
like the bag he is using is probably good, although an ESD-proof bag would
be better. Special dessicant ("The desiccant material shall be capable of
removing sources of corrosion and deterioration of product caused by
oxidation, sulfurization and other processes" and then values are given for
the amount of reduction required. The only dessicant I know of that is
capable of this is Mitsubishi Gas Chemical America's RP type. Lastly,
really, really dry nitrogen ("N2 environments shall be in accordance with
MIL-PRF-27401, Type 1 Gas, Grade C (99.995%)". Even most nitrogens
advertised as "dry nitrogen" aren't that dry, I corroded $25M worth of parts
finding this out. Operating hardware in really low humidity is a problem,
but really low humidity for storage is a good thing. Finally, aluminum
electrolytic caps are a big problem. The "long life" ones mean long life in
operation, not storage. Anything with aluminum electrolytics in it should
be removed from storage at least every three years, powered up for 24 hours,
and then returned to storage. YMMV

 

[Roy L. Fuchs]

There was one person that said below 5% relative humidity could be damaging.

When humidity is too low Electrostatic charge accumulation CAN
become problematic. ESD precautions should always be put in place
though, regardless of environmental conditions.

As far as humidity related damage, however, there is none.

 

[Rich Grise]

Argh, wrong, Not NASA. The Army will know, Of Course!!

I wonder if Voyager is still transmitting? That's only been 30 years
so far, though... Hey, neat website! According to them, she's still
going strong:
http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/missions/heliosphere_shock_010706.html

Another interesting factoid: it seems the Sun is breathing. ;-)

There *must* be a bunch of MIL-STD/Procedure(s) for storing electronic
equipment for many years (and still be sure that it will blow up when ^^^^^^^^^^^^
switched on ;-) That's what the army *do*.

I hope you mean "will not". ;-) (Bombs and such, I'd think, are
probably not subject to very many long-term storage issues. ;-) )

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

Is there a minimum level of relative humidity, below which computer equipment is
damaged?

I bought some antique handheld computers. I want to keep them in pristine
condition for a very long time, fifty years or more. I want to know the ideal
environmental conditions to store these computers. I am probably going to store
these in a bank vault. I can greatly reduce the relative humidity using a
commercial desiccant such as drierite.

Thanks for your help.

Well, I've been following the thread, and it seems you really don't need
to "store" them for more than a year or five at a time, since later on you
seem to say... lemme check... No, I was wrong. I thought you had said that
you would be chacking on them every few years or so. But if not, why do
you need to store them for so long? 50 years from now, nobody will even
know what they are.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Peter Olcott]

Well, I've been following the thread, and it seems you really don't need
to "store" them for more than a year or five at a time, since later on you
seem to say... lemme check... No, I was wrong. I thought you had said that
you would be chacking on them every few years or so. But if not, why do
you need to store them for so long? 50 years from now, nobody will even
know what they are.

Thanks,
Rich

I probably only need to store them for twenty years. That is about my remaining
life expectancy. Who knows maybe I will live to be a hundred, then I need to
store them for fifty years. It looks like storing them in anti-static bags and
placing them in cans, filling the cans with Argon gas and a little desiccant,
would seem to be about as good as can be done. One nuance that I did not quite
completely get is that the desiccant might absorb many other things besides just
humidity.

 

[Rich Grise]

I probably only need to store them for twenty years. That is about my remaining
life expectancy. Who knows maybe I will live to be a hundred, then I need to
store them for fifty years. It looks like storing them in anti-static bags and
placing them in cans, filling the cans with Argon gas and a little desiccant,
would seem to be about as good as can be done. One nuance that I did not quite
completely get is that the desiccant might absorb many other things besides just
humidity.

Well, it can't absorb what's not there - you've just backfilled the cans
with argon; you might want to blow some argon through the units to purge
out any old oxygen, or do that vacuum trick, so what's going to be in the
can besides argon and the unit?

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Peter Olcott]

Well, it can't absorb what's not there - you've just backfilled the cans
with argon; you might want to blow some argon through the units to purge
out any old oxygen, or do that vacuum trick, so what's going to be in the
can besides argon and the unit?

Thanks,
Rich

Padding, anti-static-bag, and desiccant packets.

 

[Rich Grise, PLainclothes Hippie]

Padding, anti-static-bag, and desiccant packets.

Now there's an image. Inside this box, there's a palmtop in a plastic bag,
along with some dessicant. The dessicant goes mad, eats the plastic
anti-static bag, eats the packaging, and finishes up by eating itself. %-}

Cheers!
Rich


--
Elect Me President in 2008! I will:
A. Fire the IRS, and abolish the income tax
B. Legalize drugs
C. Stand down all military actions by the US that don't involve actual
military aggression against US territory
D. Declare World Peace I.

 

[Jasen Betts]

I probably only need to store them for twenty years. That is about my remaining

life expectancy. Who knows maybe I will live to be a hundred, then I need to
store them for fifty years. It looks like storing them in anti-static bags and
placing them in cans, filling the cans with Argon gas and a little desiccant,
would seem to be about as good as can be done. One nuance that I did not quite
completely get is that the desiccant might absorb many other things besides just
humidity.

as someone said you'll need to exercise the units every few years to keep
the capacitors alive. that means picking a method of packing that can be
opened conveniently. there are airtight reclosable metal canisters out there
(paint cans etc...) there are glass ones used for storing chemicals too, but
I'm not sure how either really is.

using an oxygen absorber as well as the dessicant is probably a good idea.

 

[John Jardine.]

I probably only need to store them for twenty years. That is about my remaining
life expectancy. Who knows maybe I will live to be a hundred, then I need to
store them for fifty years. It looks like storing them in anti-static bags and
placing them in cans, filling the cans with Argon gas and a little desiccant,
would seem to be about as good as can be done. One nuance that I did not quite
completely get is that the desiccant might absorb many other things besides just
humidity.

Missed most of this thread but the British military just pack their
electronics in 2 heat sealed thick gauge polyethylene plastic bags (one bag
inside the other). No dessicants etc.
Last year opened up 1947 spy radio that had been repackaged in the early
50's. Condition was pristine. That's 50 years storage with little packaging
effort.
john

 

[Peter Olcott]

Missed most of this thread but the British military just pack their
electronics in 2 heat sealed thick gauge polyethylene plastic bags (one bag
inside the other). No dessicants etc.
Last year opened up 1947 spy radio that had been repackaged in the early
50's. Condition was pristine. That's 50 years storage with little packaging
effort.
john

I would guess that they might initially pack these in a minimum humidity
environment.

 

[Peter Olcott]

as someone said you'll need to exercise the units every few years to keep
the capacitors alive. that means picking a method of packing that can be
opened conveniently. there are airtight reclosable metal canisters out there
(paint cans etc...) there are glass ones used for storing chemicals too, but
I'm not sure how either really is.

using an oxygen absorber as well as the dessicant is probably a good idea.

What can I get that is an oxygen absorber? (I thought the purpose of the Argon
was to eliminate the oxygen).

 

[William P.N. Smith]

What can I get that is an oxygen absorber?

Google is your friend. Of the first 1.6M hits, number 3 (past the
paid ads) is http://waltonfeed.com/oxy.html

 

[Richard Henry]

ones used for storing chemicals too, but

What can I get that is an oxygen absorber? (I thought the purpose of the Argon
was to eliminate the oxygen).

Finely divided cast iron works pretty well.

 

[John Jardine.]

[...]

Missed most of this thread but the British military just pack their
electronics in 2 heat sealed thick gauge polyethylene plastic bags (one bag
inside the other). No dessicants etc.
Last year opened up 1947 spy radio that had been repackaged in the early
50's. Condition was pristine. That's 50 years storage with little packaging
effort.
john

I would guess that they might initially pack these in a minimum humidity
environment.

Or maybe just pack 'em while in a warm environment.
TBH, 50 years is actually a short time for storage purposes. Most objects
constructed of reasonable quality materials can be stored with minimum
degradation for many hundreds of years without any special treatment. The
big killer is damp and condensation.
Argon, Nitrogen, vacuums, dessicants, sealed copper containments etc are
fine for Expo buried time capsules, designed to be opened thousands of years
in the future but of little benefit over (say) a trivial 50 years.
I've a military radio collection and aquired over the years numerous small
electrical, electronic parts and assemblies. These range even back to the
1920s and '30s. Most of the bits have spent their lives in cheap paper bags
and cardboard boxes but have not suffered, as they have simply been kept dry
and indoors.
From the experience of getting these old boatanchors running again, I know
by that by far the biggest consideration to extending the life of electrical
equipment unused over a long period of time, is never, never, ever, allow
the equipment to be powered up at it's normal working voltage. Power needs
ramping up from zero to 100% over at least a couple of days.
john

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Or maybe just pack 'em while in a warm environment.
TBH, 50 years is actually a short time for storage purposes. Most objects
constructed of reasonable quality materials can be stored with minimum
degradation for many hundreds of years without any special treatment. The
big killer is damp and condensation.
Argon, Nitrogen, vacuums, dessicants, sealed copper containments etc are
fine for Expo buried time capsules, designed to be opened thousands of years
in the future but of little benefit over (say) a trivial 50 years.
I've a military radio collection and aquired over the years numerous small
electrical, electronic parts and assemblies. These range even back to the
1920s and '30s. Most of the bits have spent their lives in cheap paper bags
and cardboard boxes but have not suffered, as they have simply been kept dry
and indoors.
From the experience of getting these old boatanchors running again, I know
by that by far the biggest consideration to extending the life of electrical
equipment unused over a long period of time, is never, never, ever, allow
the equipment to be powered up at it's normal working voltage. Power needs
ramping up from zero to 100% over at least a couple of days.
john

How about the plasticiser evaporating and turning the molded parts
into a crumbled mess of splinters?
--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[William P.N. Smith]

by far the biggest consideration to extending the life of electrical
equipment unused over a long period of time, is never, never, ever, allow
the equipment to be powered up at it's normal working voltage. Power needs
ramping up from zero to 100% over at least a couple of days.

Good point, but modern electronics with switching power supplies
wouldn't respond well to this kind of abuse. A soft-start is probably
a good idea, but certainly not over days.

The OP has handheld computers with AA batteries, I'd say put a new set
in and leave them for a day before powering up...

 

[John Jardine.]

:
[...]

How about the plasticiser evaporating and turning the molded parts
into a crumbled mess of splinters?
--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

That comes under the "reasonable quality" bit . Use cheap plastics and the
stuff'll fall apart no matter what you do. Like over the past few years the
diecast toy collectors are weeping buckets as they watch impotently as their
expensive collections convert to Zinc dust due to the cheap moulding metal
originally used.
Containment sealing any plastics using a lot of plasticisers is a no-no. The
chemicals are free to leach out and spend their time corroding out the rest
of the product.
Every new car I drive I end up with sensitised palms and fingers due to the
plasticisers in the steering wheel oozing out, (Really bad on a hot day).
Nasty stuff.
john