Installation of OutBack System: first impressions

[Steve Spence]

Having not used a beacon, I can't comment on it's usefulness, or lack
thereof. However, even if something doesn't have all the bells and
whistles that some consider "a serious off grid system", but still
allows one to live off grid, then it just may be appropriate in some
instances. Our AC DELCO inverter is a msw, non-stackable, chargerless,
no transfer switch enabled model, and compares miserably to a xantrex sw
or a outback, but at $269 for a 2500 watt unit, was appropriate for us.
We have a "serious" off grid system. If it fails, it's a serious problem.

I would like an outback, but my budget won't allow it.


Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust
http://www.green-trust.org

Contributing Editor
http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html

 

[Gymmie Bob]

Alwaya flame and never any answers in this group. When did the nursery get
out?

Most conclude their isn't many knowledgeable people here. I do. Most are in
my bozo bin now but there are still a few more to go.

 

[Gymmie Bob]

If you guys knew what you were talking about you would be dangerous.
Beacon Power's system is on-grid/ off-grid and MPPT are rolled into one. It
PP tracks much better than the Xantrex and other known brands on the market.

Funny how the ignorance shows by the amount of aggresion to any idea here.
Fucking children.

 

[Robert Morein]

What's the fuel consumption at zero load?

Nothing like a Northern Lights Lugger Diesel. I got a pair of the 20Kw
units and they are one serious genset. I saw a rebuilt one on ebay that
went for less than $1500US a few days ago, and there is another there
now, that started out at $1500US with less than 1000 hours, and that is
just barely broken-in, for a Northern Lights.


Bruce in alaska

 

[Gymmie Bob]

Once again you are an ignorant asshole disguising your lack of confidence.

Do your own research asshole. Advanced Energy never produced an M5. Come
back when you can carry on a converstion like a grown up

<PLONK>

 

[Derek Broughton]

Having not used a beacon, I can't comment on it's usefulness, or lack
thereof. However, even if something doesn't have all the bells and
whistles that some consider "a serious off grid system", but still
allows one to live off grid, then it just may be appropriate in some
instances. Our AC DELCO inverter is a msw, non-stackable, chargerless,
no transfer switch enabled model, and compares miserably to a xantrex sw
or a outback, but at $269 for a 2500 watt unit, was appropriate for us.
We have a "serious" off grid system. If it fails, it's a serious problem.

I would like an outback, but my budget won't allow it.

I had something of the sort (can't actually remember the brand, anymore)
before the Outback. Then, one foggy week, I had to turn on the generator -
and forgot to unplug the inverter first - and fried the inverter. I'd have
to do that three more times before the Outback pays for itself, but I think
the odds on that were pretty good It gave me two years of solid
modified-sine-wave service, though. I can't help but wonder if there isn't
a market for a cheaper version of the Outback without all those bells and
whistles - or whether the features add so little cost that without them
they wouldn't sell for much less.

 

[Bruce in Alaska]

What's the fuel consumption at zero load?

I have no idea, because I load it up and use it EVERY Day....that's why
I have it, as I generate ALL my own power.


Bruce in alasla

 

[Robert Morein]

Do you have any figures at all for sub-max load conditions?

 

[Me]

Do you have any figures at all for sub-max load conditions?

Call them and ask them......


Me

 

[Robert Morein]

Call them and ask them......


Me

and believe them?
I've always wanted a big diesel. The problem is inefficiency at < 50% load.

 

[Me]

and believe them?
I've always wanted a big diesel. The problem is inefficiency at < 50% load.

Wrong, Low Rpm Diesel gensets are very linear in fuel vs load once you
get passed the 25% load range.


Me

 

[Robert Morein]

[snip]

Wrong, Low Rpm Diesel gensets are very linear in fuel vs load once you
get passed the 25% load range.


Me

That's very interesting.
I would like to hear it from multiple sources.
There's also the problem of engine damage -- glazing, carbon accumulation.
I wonder if there are known prescriptions for managing this with lightly
loaded diesels.

 

[Me]

That's very interesting.
I would like to hear it from multiple sources.
There's also the problem of engine damage -- glazing, carbon accumulation.
I wonder if there are known prescriptions for managing this with lightly
loaded diesels.

Yea, and your the same Dufus, that wants everything in Triplicate
too.....


Me

 

[Robert Morein]

Yea, and your the same Dufus, that wants everything in Triplicate
too.....

Me,
That's gratuitous.
Let's keep the group clean.

Bob Morein

 

[Windsun]

How about we keep the crap and non relevant infantile remarks out of here?

 

[daestrom]

[snip]

Wrong, Low Rpm Diesel gensets are very linear in fuel vs load once you
get passed the 25% load range.


Me

That's very interesting.
I would like to hear it from multiple sources.
There's also the problem of engine damage -- glazing, carbon accumulation.
I wonder if there are known prescriptions for managing this with lightly
loaded diesels.

Those are good points. It *is* true that fuel consumption in a diesel is
very linear with load (for a constant RPM). This is because although it is
always moving about the same amount of air through the engine, the pumping
power to move that air at partial loads is *not* the same as for an Otto
cycle (diesel has almost no differential pressure from intake to exhaust,
while Otto engines at part load go from 20+inhg vacumn to atmospheric).

The large engines I've seen used for emergency power were very good about
fuel use at part load. But they *do* soot up at part load and that can be a
problem. The big units with turbo-charged two-cycle engines also had issues
with the gear drive used to drive the turbo at low loads (EMD's for
example).

But the fix is pretty painless unless it gets real bad, just load up in a
few incremental steps to 100% and run for ~hour there to 'burn' it off.
Mind you, that only applies to the carbon deposits.

As you probably know, there is only one fix for glazed cylinders though,
tear down and hone the cylinder wall. :-(

Interestingly, the EMD's used in railroad locomotives are almost exactly the
same as those used for standby power in many applications. But because they
are run at very low RPM when unloaded, they don't have as much trouble with
idling for long periods. Too bad a standby generator can't 'idle' at 200
RPM

daestrom

 

[Scott Willing]

How about we keep the crap and non relevant infantile remarks out of here?

Ah yes, "Me" doesn't seem to have noticed that this group is (usually)
a cut above the typical pointless usenet slug-fest.

-=s

 

[Robert Morein]

[snip]

Wrong, Low Rpm Diesel gensets are very linear in fuel vs load once you
get passed the 25% load range.


Me

That's very interesting.
I would like to hear it from multiple sources.
There's also the problem of engine damage -- glazing, carbon accumulation.
I wonder if there are known prescriptions for managing this with lightly
loaded diesels.

Those are good points. It *is* true that fuel consumption in a diesel is
very linear with load (for a constant RPM). This is because although it is
always moving about the same amount of air through the engine, the pumping
power to move that air at partial loads is *not* the same as for an Otto
cycle (diesel has almost no differential pressure from intake to exhaust,
while Otto engines at part load go from 20+inhg vacumn to atmospheric).

The large engines I've seen used for emergency power were very good about
fuel use at part load. But they *do* soot up at part load and that can be a
problem. The big units with turbo-charged two-cycle engines also had issues
with the gear drive used to drive the turbo at low loads (EMD's for
example).

But the fix is pretty painless unless it gets real bad, just load up in a
few incremental steps to 100% and run for ~hour there to 'burn' it off.
Mind you, that only applies to the carbon deposits.

As you probably know, there is only one fix for glazed cylinders though,
tear down and hone the cylinder wall. :-(

Is glazing inevitable, or is there a prevention?

 

[Me]

[snip]

Wrong, Low Rpm Diesel gensets are very linear in fuel vs load once you
get passed the 25% load range.


Me

That's very interesting.
I would like to hear it from multiple sources.
There's also the problem of engine damage -- glazing, carbon accumulation.
I wonder if there are known prescriptions for managing this with lightly
loaded diesels.

Those are good points. It *is* true that fuel consumption in a diesel is
very linear with load (for a constant RPM). This is because although it is
always moving about the same amount of air through the engine, the pumping
power to move that air at partial loads is *not* the same as for an Otto
cycle (diesel has almost no differential pressure from intake to exhaust,
while Otto engines at part load go from 20+inhg vacumn to atmospheric).

The large engines I've seen used for emergency power were very good about
fuel use at part load. But they *do* soot up at part load and that can be a
problem. The big units with turbo-charged two-cycle engines also had issues
with the gear drive used to drive the turbo at low loads (EMD's for
example).

But the fix is pretty painless unless it gets real bad, just load up in a
few incremental steps to 100% and run for ~hour there to 'burn' it off.
Mind you, that only applies to the carbon deposits.

As you probably know, there is only one fix for glazed cylinders though,
tear down and hone the cylinder wall. :-(

Is glazing inevitable, or is there a prevention?

The prevention is to run the engine at 75%+ load at least 5% of the time.
This will cause the engine to reach heat equilibrium, burn off any carbon
buildup in the cylinder, and allow the cylinder/ring interface friction
to reduce any glazing component.


Me