How much Hydrogen and Oxygen released..

[BobK]

So, to summarize what Timothy said,

You want to use X KWH of energy to split H2O into say 0.8 X KWH worth of Hydrogen. Then transport the engery in the form of Hydrogen to where it used at a cost higher than transporting the electricity. So where is the gain? Once you have the electricty, you end up with more useful energy by simply using the electricity.

Bob

 

[CocaCola]

I'm not completely against using H2 as the portable energy source for vehicles. Containment is one big issue with that, but maybe they could find a way around that.

The biggest issue is the volume needed, you need to compress it to a liquid to really be viable in a vehicle, or even a consumable power alternative... You simply couldn't build enough tanks to hold enough volume to power a city unless it's highly compressed... And you get the host of issues surrounding that, even further lose in the compression and trying to contain the liquid fuel without even further lose is a challenge... H2 is a containment nightmare, it's a small molecule and will sneak past the smallest of small leaks in great volumes, the power to volume ratio is low and thus you need huge volumes to equal the output of conventional fossil fuels...

Read up about the BMW Hydrogen 7, it can work but it's far from practical... The car will self empty it's own fuel tank every 10-12 days just trying to contain the liquid H2... Imagine this containment on a larger scale like trying to power an entire city! It's not far fetched (IMO) that you would need to produce 3, 4 , 5, 10 or even 20 times the actual consumed H2 just to keep up with the loses from it sitting around... Even a small leak would empty a tank or supply line exponentially faster due to the molecule size and pressure...

IMO it's not the answer for our world at this time, IMO bio-fuels provide a much more practical solution for todays needs as they are for the most part compatible with the existing infrastructure that includes storage, containment and delivery...

 

[cjdelphi]

the hydrogen is not used to power but to replace heating cooking driving with to help save oil... nothing more

 

[Ricky1]

The process described would be incredibly inefficient, to the point where it would be useless. H2 is a great power source, but to contain it, you would need enormous storage units with an enormous amount of pressurization, because of the fact that H2 molecules are smaller than any other molecule and can escape through pretty much any barrier, so transportation at this point is really out of the question, it would cost too much energy to transport the containment system.
The idea of using steam to power a turbine is not new, and it works, because solar energy is, for all practical purposes, free, but using the energy produced by a turbine to split the steam into molecular H2 and O2 is an unecessary step, and introduces greater inefficiency even before we consider the problem of transportation.

 

[BobK]

the hydrogen is not used to power but to replace heating cooking driving with to help save oil... nothing more

But using the electricity you already produced to do the heating would be more efficient.

Bob

 

[(*steve*)]

H2 does have the benefit of being able to be stored. But even that is not very practical.

If the generation is solar and the supply exceeds demand then by all means use the excess to drive some energy storage mechanism.

The other issue is distance. With electricity you can lose a large amount of energy in I^2R losses over long transmission lines. Whilst the conversion to H2 and back to electricity is lossy, some of that may be compensated by generating power closer to the customer (however pipelines aren't free either).

Pumping water uphill is a fairly efficient method of storing power, but relies on large reservoirs and available water.

The good thing about solar is that you can have generation close to (in fact BY the customer) using otherwise unused roof space. Whilst not the best in terms of absolute efficiency, it uses an otherwise unused resource -- roof space. However such co-generation can put unusual load characteristics on base load generators.

There is no simple route to "free" power. (also no free route).

 

[Gristle McThornbody]

Cjdelphi, you need to listen to what Coca Cola is saying. Unfortunately, you do not appear to be trained in these areas and so you are failing to understand the underlying concepts from which CC is trying to educate you.

From your vantage point, I'm sure these seem like great ideas but you are failing to grasp many important principles of chemistry, physics and engineering. And, perhaps, most importantly, thermodynamics (my own particular area of expertise).

Time to quit arguing and listen. Coca Cola has done a very good job explaining all this.

 

[donkey]

i can understand the logic behind using H2 to help take the reliance of fossil fuels but in reality its alot harder than it seems.
another thing to point out is that while elctrical heating is coming along fast, as an ex-chef I can tell you now gas was always better, instant heat to the pan. electric stoves took forever to heat up and in a commercial kitchen thats a nightmare.

however I look at the problem in this way, there is more than just seperating the atoms that takes up energy. storing it in a "tube" "cylinder" or any other means is very possible, but you need to COMPRESS it which takes more energy, going of a compressor on an aircon this can't be too energy efficient.
then there is the transport which again uses more energy.

the day when we can use our "grey water", filter it down and then create our own hydrogen in a small quantity at home is the day this becomes viable. having it transported after all the energy wasted I don't see as a viable option. also then you would have to make sure it is totally safe.

the only way i see of doing it is to use solar to start the reaction, but as everyone has said, if yo already have the electricity why use it to create a lesser amount?