Maker Pro
Maker Pro

How much diesel fuel to store (fuel tank)

I

Ignoramus25850

About the same cost as a second generator. (if everything's equal age
and quality)

My generator cost me $700, plus a bunch of parts, building materials,
lead etc.

Occasionally used but properly maintained batteries should last ten
years.

That's not that long.
Installation of an inverter and batteries is relatively simple. With
proper preparation, figure a day. Allow an additional day to
experiment with the system, and consider that time well spent toward
*knowing* how things will function during an outage.

That's fair.
Figure a shelving unit, total floor space 4 sq. ft. Again, about the
same as a second generator. Or either could fit nicely under an
existing bench or whatever.
Agree.


If I can go 10 years without an outage, you shouldn't have any trouble
going 22 hours. And you've left out a major benefit - having power for
24 hours instead of 8, and perhaps being able to run your fridge
normally.

Well, that's some benefit, but do we really need electricity all that
much during the day and at night?
Why are you sure of that, but unsure of an inverter functioning?
Occasionally used generators, especially if they're old, often fail
when they're needed most (just ask the guys you bought your's from).
For that reason, those who *rely* on the availability of a generator
will have a backup. Your preparations thus far are anything but
casual. Think about how you're going to feel if after so much effort
you still end up rushing to eat all your fridge contents by
candlelight. ;-)

ROTFLMAO.

You know Wayne, you made me think. I am realizing a few things. I will
make a separate post.

i
 
I

Ignoramus25850

Vaughn,

I realized that with the stuff I already have, I can make a decent
inverter based system for next to nothing. I am going to make a post
here and to Rec.Crafts.Metalworking.

i

I come down on Ig's side here. I have found inverters to be of marginal
use. I expect to use all 12-volt lights & other goodies when the generator is
off. I honestly don't have a good idea how many hours I need to run my 'fridge
per day to preserve my food, but that will probably determine run time for the
generator.

That said, few people really consider fuel costs for their standby
generators. After Katrina came across Florida (remember? we got her first) I
had a friend who lost power for about 4 days. With the new $3.00 gas, he was
spending about $50.00 per day to run minimum house loads and one small room A/C.
For a month of operation that would be a $1500 "electric bill"! Even my little
Onan (runs on NG) would run up an amazing energy bill for 24/7 operation.

Vaughn


--
 
W

William P. N. Smith

Ignoramus25850 said:
does this apply to military fuel cans?

Military plastic fuel cans? Do those even exist?
By the way, CTD is out of those fuel cans, I called them today and
they confirmed that.

I'm not surprised. Not even surprised that the price recently went
from $15 to $20... Generatorjoe.net has them for $40 (or $50 with a
spout(*)), if you don't want to wait.

(*) The GeneratorJoe spouts don't fit the CheaperThanDirt cans, and
they don't care about your stupid little problems. 8*|
 
I

Ignoramus25850

Military plastic fuel cans? Do those even exist?

Yes, the military switched to plastic fuel cans.
I'm not surprised. Not even surprised that the price recently went
from $15 to $20... Generatorjoe.net has them for $40 (or $50 with a
spout(*)), if you don't want to wait.

I have GJ's fuel can, it is excellent, but I am looking for a better
deal.
(*) The GeneratorJoe spouts don't fit the CheaperThanDirt cans, and
they don't care about your stupid little problems. 8*|

That's fine, I already have a can with a spout that I keep in my truck...
i
 
I

Ignoramus25850

I'm not confident your 7KW genset will be that efficient under load.
Best to test it for a day before you find yourself short of fuel. A
window air conditioner that draws 5KW-6KW running at full blast should
be a good measure. Or maybe four 1500W space heaters running full -
outside of course.

I did load test that genset at 7.5 kW resistive load, last winter. It
ran for about 15 minutes with no problems.

i


--
 
C

CC

Ignoramus25850 said:
This benefit is relatively marginal, since my Onan DJE generator will
outlast any possible outage. And it is already quite economical on
fuel. I expect to use less than a liter of fuel per hour.

I'm not confident your 7KW genset will be that efficient under load.
Best to test it for a day before you find yourself short of fuel. A
window air conditioner that draws 5KW-6KW running at full blast should
be a good measure. Or maybe four 1500W space heaters running full -
outside of course.


CC
 
D

Dale Farmer

Ignoramus25850 said:
I do not have an oil furnace.

So that isn't an option for you.
I believe that keeping such drums would be illegal.

Check your local laws to be sure. Don't assume.
Hm, in case of a hermetically sealed tank such as a full jerry can,
that is not possible, right?

Actually sealed airtight, less so. You will want to toss in some
thing to take care of any water in the fuel when you fill it. alcohol
or whatever is recommended. The biocide stuff mentioned before
sounds like the ticket.
Sure, but these tanks have breathers...

Yup, and a checkout procedure that has them opening the
tank cap periodically, sometimes that is during the rain or snow
storm.

--Dale
 
I

Ignoramus11916

You probably don't, but there are small things, like a radio, that could be
run off a car battery and inverter, or better yet, straight from the
battery. Inverters are inefficient, and big truck stops carry everything
from TV's to coffee makers that can run off 12V sources. I try to make sure
most of my important stuff can be run this way.

I have a small 300 Watt inverter. Ought to be okay to run a boombox.
Personally, I favor a setup that uses one or two batteries, a low power
inverter (300W), and a battery charger. A solar panel large enough to
charge one battery every two days or so is on my list of things to buy.

Makes perfect sense. I already have batteries, chargers etc, on a
small scale (not enough to run a ferrups UPS).
This will be enough to run a few things, such as my GPS, XM radio, CB, and
other gadgets, and it will also be portable (hence the GPS) so if I need to
move, I don't have to lug a generator into the car, which would take the
place of food and such.

That's nice.
It doesn't make sense to run a large generator for something small, such as
a cordless phone, so a setup like this could extend your running time
significantly.
Absolutely.

You could run the generator for maybe a couple hours a day, enough
to keep the fridge cold, charge the batteries, and charge anything
else that needs charging, and use the battery/inverter setup for
lights, radio, even a small TV.

My biggest concerns that necessitate having a generator is relatively
harsh winter weather (Northern Illinois), that makes running a furnace
100% mandatory, sump pump, fridges etc. I do not think that,
realistically, 2 hours a day is really enough, except in the end of
the world scenarios where I need to conserve fuel to utmost extent.
If space and the trouble of maintaning the battery turn you off, you
can have a mechanic install it in your vehicle, which would keep it
charged and allow you to start it if your main battery dies. When
the power goes out, attach some fused cables to the battery and run
them to your house. Your mechanic should install a battery isolator
for a dual battery setup, so when one is used up, you can still use
the other for starting the car.

As I said yesterday, I already have a bad ass 12V charger, batteries,
and two inverters: a small 300W unit from Costco, and a large 1400 VA
Ferrups FE UPS.
As for cost, a battery can be had for $60, a quality inverter for under $30,
and wiring and fuses shouldn't be more than $10 or $20. For the fancy
in-vehicle setup, I don't know, as I installed them myself, but I'd say
maybe $150 for installation and $50 for the isolator and battery box. The
battery should last at least 5 years, and may very well pay for itself if
you'd otherwise have to get towed.

Pagan

Thanks Pagan. I realized, yesterday, that I have a lot of very cheap
options.

i
 
I

Ignoramus11916

Remember, A/C units, refrigerators, and TV's aren't resistive loads, and
tend to suck up a lot of power on startup. If they all start up at the same
time...

Yea, sure. I do not see it as a big deal. I will need to do a lot with
breakers to get the house running on the genset. In summer, turning
off the main and secondary A/C is mandatory. Also need to turn off the
hot tub heater, etc etc.

My genset can run the hot tub heater (it is a 1.5 kW 110V heater), but
it needs to be done carefully. In winter, it would need to be done to
prevent freeze damage.

Like I said, I already ran the house on my genset. It ran just fine.

i
 
W

William P. N. Smith

Ignoramus11916 said:
As I said yesterday, I already have a bad ass 12V charger, batteries,
and two inverters: a small 300W unit from Costco, and a large 1400 VA
Ferrups FE UPS.

Check to be sure that the UPS is rated for continuous duty, many of
them only have battery for 5-10 minutes runtime, so that's all the
thermal design is good for...
 
I

Ignoramus11916

Check to be sure that the UPS is rated for continuous duty, many of
them only have battery for 5-10 minutes runtime, so that's all the
thermal design is good for...

that depends on how many batteries are connected to its 12V cable.

This is a really cool UPS. It can be turned on without 120V input. It
can also run from any 12V source, such as a car
alternator+battery. That's how I used it before I bought the genset.

If I was to use this setup now, I would have several 12 batteries
connected in parallel, a big charger, and the UPS. Its charging
circuit is blown.

i
 
C

CC

Ignoramus25850 said:
I did load test that genset at 7.5 kW resistive load, last winter. It
ran for about 15 minutes with no problems.

Sorry, meant "fuel efficient" - 1 liter/hour under load sounds a little
light.


CC
 
I

Ignoramus965

The NATO 2kw diesel field generator uses a plastic fuel tank.
A dealer for Yamaha gas generators warned against metal cans. Contamination
of the gas with particles of rust results.
While no plastic qualifies as hermetic, it seems to me that the inevitable
pressure differential will cause air to slowly pass back and forth past the
lid seal on any tank. But the flexible nature of a plastic tank should
reduce the pressure differential.

In my case, fuel goes through a sediment bowl, a primary fuel filter
and a secondary fuel filter. The gas tank (a modified jerry can)
experiences zero vibration since it stands on the ground, it is not
mounted on the generator. An occasional rust particle is not an
issue.
The old fuel I mentioned was stored in metal tanks. But for outdoor storage,
I use plastic. They sit right on the dirt without harm.

That's nice to know!

i
 
W

William P. N. Smith

Robert Morein said:
While no plastic qualifies as hermetic, it seems to me that the inevitable
pressure differential will cause air to slowly pass back and forth past the
lid seal on any tank.

Well, when I open my metal cans I can get a giant woosh of equalizing
pressure, so I know there's no significant air exchange or volatiles
loss thru the thick, compressed rubber gasket. OTOH, I could smell
the volatiles leaking thru my old plastic cans.
 
Top