How long does MP3 flash memory retain contents?

[Jon D]

I think the memory used in MP3 players and USM memory sticks is called
"flash" memory.

For how does this type of memory retain its conents WITHOUT any battery
power?

 

[Roger Hamlett]

I think the memory used in MP3 players and USM memory sticks is called
"flash" memory.

For how does this type of memory retain its conents WITHOUT any battery
power?

Most manufacturers are quoting in excess of 40 years. However other
limitations may/will restrict this (there is a life span in terms of how
often the chip is erased/written in particular).

Best Wishes

 

[Paul]

I think the memory used in MP3 players and USM memory sticks is called
"flash" memory.

For how does this type of memory retain its conents WITHOUT any battery
power?

http://www.altavista.com/web/results?q=flash+memory+retention+years

I can see some results on the returned page, that list 10 years
at 85C. When operated at a lower temperature, I would expect
the contents to be retained for longer than that.

In one research paper in those returned results, they note that
the retention time drops, with the number of program/erase (P/E)
cycles. So the more you use the flash device, the retention
time drops.

If your intention is to archive some information for posterity,
then buy a new flash device, download the data to the device
just once. Then, store the device in a cool dry location,
preferably away from ionizing radiation. And then hope, that in
10 years time, computers still have an interface suitable for
your flash device.

I have read of occasional problems with courier delivery of
flash devices. It is possible that some equipment used to
scan packages, has the ability to erase flash. So, once your
valuable info is placed on the flash memory, hand carry it
to its final destination (the cool dry place).

Paul

 

[Lostgallifreyan]

[email protected] (Paul) wrote in [email protected]:

And then hope, that in
10 years time, computers still have an interface suitable for
your flash device.

Guaranteed, so long as we don't nuke ourselves to near-oblivion making
computers a fond memory.

The IDE adapters that take a Compact Flash card and allow any OS to boot
from them all at a cost of about $15 including the card, will probably
replace the floppy disk as the main means of emergency booting for
machines.

Anything that useful will probably last twenty or thirty yers. And flash
memory of any decent capacity hasn't been around 10 years yet, it's just
rated that way because no-one has had any for long enough to guarantee
longer. At low room temperatures, it's likely to last a century. Just don't
expect any firm to formally commit to any guarantee like that.

There is also USB. I seriously under-rated that interface, but the more I
use it, the more it looks like something that can be used for the simplest
tasks yet work fast enough for live video feed. Anything designed for USB,
especially things like the C-media audio IC's that use native W98 support,
will become so widely supported that in a century you'll find it far easier
to find a way to read from storage than it is to find a clean vinyl LP now.

 

[William P.N. Smith]

[email protected] (Paul) wrote in news:nospam-

Guaranteed

Well, it probably depends on how far out you go. How many 8" floppy
drives (or even 5"), or ST-506 hard drive interfaces can you find any
more? It looks like interfaces are shorter lived than many data
storage options nowadays.

 

[Joel Kolstad]

Well, it probably depends on how far out you go. How many 8" floppy
drives (or even 5"), or ST-506 hard drive interfaces can you find any
more?

I don't know about 8" floppies, but 5.25" floppy drives are still trivially
easy to obtain.

As for a hard drive... realistically I don't think one can view them as
"archival storage." CD and DVDs certainly would be, though, and a standard
CD/DVD reader today can still read the discs put out some 15 years ago just
fine.

 

[Prepair Ltd]

Well, it probably depends on how far out you go. How many 8" floppy
drives (or even 5"), or ST-506 hard drive interfaces can you find any
more? It looks like interfaces are shorter lived than many data
storage options nowadays.

Is Al Shugart still around?

We've still got a couple of full height 10mb drives, one made by Shugart
Associates and the other a Seagate Technologies unit. Both full of discrete
components and huge stepper motors, definitely not made like that any more...

Peter

 

[Lostgallifreyan]

Well, it probably depends on how far out you go. How many 8" floppy
drives (or even 5"), or ST-506 hard drive interfaces can you find any
more? It looks like interfaces are shorter lived than many data
storage options nowadays.

Yes, but that's my point. The thing that made me post was the awareness of
the IDE to CF adapters. Once you have something like that you've got a
mainstream format that really isn't going to fall by the wayside. Even the
new SATA isn't going to send those to oblivion, and people will probably
just make SATA to CF adapters for the same CF cards. They won't use the
speed of SATA, but the cheap adapeters will mean that a standard format CF
card is more likely to fall from grace before people become unwilling to
make adapters for them. Being small, square, flat, robust, cheap, and good
for at least a few GB, I think that's a format that will see useful life
for decades.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

I have a couple half height TEAC 8" floppy drives, a couple hundred 5
1/4" floppy drives and lots of 5 1/4" drives and controllers. The
problem with these is if it was for an XT (8-bit), you have to match the
controller to the drive.

Is Al Shugart still around?

We've still got a couple of full height 10mb drives, one made by Shugart
Associates and the other a Seagate Technologies unit. Both full of discrete
components and huge stepper motors, definitely not made like that any more...

Peter

Shugart Associates was sued by Shugart and forced to change their
name, so they chose Seagate.

The SA1004? I just scrapped a pile of them a year or so ago but I
kept a couple for my collection. Anyone remember the 20 MB IOMEGA
Floptical drive? I have a brand new one, still sealed in the display
box.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Lostgallifreyan]

Actually, I think the CF flash will evolve to fit with SATA and eventually
fuse the serial adapter and CF in one card of similar size. The main
weakness of current CF cards is they have lots of contacts, that being
their weakest point. But I doubt people with data on parallel CF cards will
be left high and dry, there will likely be a long period of overlap during
which both formats will be common. Anything smaller than a CF card would be
too small and fiddly for most human hands to wield on a daily basis,
especially in non-ideal working environments.

My guess is that once serialised, the adapters will use small
LED/photodiode couplers, contain their own batteries or maybe use AC HF
couplings for power transfer so they can be inserted into bays with no
contacts. They'd be good for cleanrooms, or farmland. If you dropped one in
the mud you'd wipe a fingertip along the edge after wiping most oif the
crap off it, and you could insert it and expect it to work.

This is all nearly doable now, given small power converter circuits and
optical coupling and a little more evolution and uptake of SATA, so we're
nearly at a point where we have a format that might never need to change
again, just as the basic form of the book has been settled for centuries.
With books, people usually change sizes and such because they want to, not
because they have to to gain further improvement. I think small general
purpose storage is reaching that point, and to gain more capacity, only the
internal density and speed will continue to change signifcantly.

 

[Lostgallifreyan]

I don't know about 8" floppies, but 5.25" floppy drives are still
trivially easy to obtain.

As for a hard drive... realistically I don't think one can view them
as "archival storage." CD and DVDs certainly would be, though, and a
standard CD/DVD reader today can still read the discs put out some 15
years ago just fine.

Yep, agreed, the CDFS file system is a keeper. I think that as well as
certain devices being so useful that interfaces will always be made for
them while people will use them, file systems will also endure. FAT32 is a
standard on CF cards, hence the easy adation to IDE controllers.

So maybe it;s not the device, OR the interface that really determines the
longevity, but the file system alone.