How can I test a xlr charging port

[kellys_eye]

Despite there being no 'visible' fuse on the outside of the charger unit there may be one INSIDE it that requires you to dismantle the charger to access.

The fact that the charger output is 'zero' is peculiar and indicative of a potential internal fault. You don't have a lot to lose by opening one and having a look!

 

[Tracker]

Despite there being no 'visible' fuse on the outside of the charger unit there may be one INSIDE it that requires you to dismantle the charger to access.

The fact that the charger output is 'zero' is peculiar and indicative of a potential internal fault. You don't have a lot to lose by opening one and having a look!

You must have not seen my post Of Wednesday 6:37 pm: “Checked fuse, not blown”. I opened the charger and found the fuse intact.

 

[kellys_eye]

Can you post pictures of the internals of the charger?

There may be something there that 'experienced eyes' can spot in respect to the zero output.

 

[Terry01]

Can you post pictures of the internals of the charger?

There may be something there that 'experienced eyes' can spot in respect to the zero output.

I would strongly agree with that. An experienced eye over a good quality close up photo could very easy spot something not obvious to us. Like k-e says...not much to lose.

 

[Tracker]

Can you post pictures of the internals of the charger?

There may be something there that 'experienced eyes' can spot in respect to the zero output.

I went to a local scooter store/repair shop which had already declined to work on mine and ask them to try my charger on one of their scooters. When plugged in the charger's charging light was red, as is normal when it is in full charging mode, and the tech concluded that it is working correctly. He then plugged one of their chargers into my scooter, and it behaved the same way mine does: the charging light lit green, which it's supposed to do when the batteries are 100% charged, though my batteries are 60-70% charged.

I considered snipping off the xlr plug of my charger and wiring it to battery cables with quick connectors, but as I understand it these chargers require feedback from the batteries or charging "system" and I don't know if that the charger would work wired directly.

I believe my best bet is to charge the batteries directly, perhaps with one of these:
http://batteryminders.com/store.php?v=24&&spawner=volt
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002DTV172/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza (only 2.5A so would take longer to charge)

Otherwise, I'm going to end up with a $5000 scooter that's useless to me. Even if I found a tech to diagnose the problem, there's no guarantee they could solve the issue and get it fixed, and the cost would surely exceed the cost of rigging up direct charge.

 

[kellys_eye]

I went to a local scooter store/repair shop which had already declined to work on mine and ask them to try my charger on one of their scooters. When plugged in the charger's charging light was red, as is normal when it is in full charging mode, and the tech concluded that it is working correctly. He then plugged one of their chargers into my scooter, and it behaved the same way mine does: the charging light lit green, which it's supposed to do when the batteries are 100% charged, though my batteries are 60-70% charged.

That information would have been useful a few pages ago.....

Despite the scooter being and S3 version I suspect they use the same controller throughout the range therefore the schematic for the SE is likely to be the same: assuming this IS the case.........


You can see that the charger socket (CH1) has the three pins, pin 1 negative, 2 is positive and 3 is the charger control line. This is the yellow/green wire from the back of the socket shown in earlier pictures you posted.

Since you state:

try my charger on one of their scooters. When plugged in the charger's charging light was red, as is normal when it is in full charging mode,

then your charger is obviously ok.

The 'missing' item is the yellow/green (charging) signal wire which, I believe should be shorted to the negative wire.

With the charger OFF but plugged in to the XLR socket, measure the resistance between pins 1 and 3 (meter on ohms/continuity) and check that there is a short between them.

If there is then there is a fault on the 'rear board' - chase the yellow/green wire to JP3 to make sure it is connected and also check F3(? can't read it on the diagram but its labelled as 'lights fuse') as, strangely, this may be part of the charging circuit?????? < probably not, but no harm in trying.

Either way, the lack of voltage on your charger output is perplexing - the charger doesn't lead me to believe it auto-disconnects its output without a load connected but this 'may' be the case and therefore leading us to believe its faulty when measured disconnected but, in fact, it's not.

 

[Terry01]

I'm sure with all mobility chargers unless there is some value sent back from the batteries before it charges it won't start charging. Not sure if it's a Volts or Amps value. Both of my chargers go through some kind of start up. As soon as I flick the power switch it takes a couple seconds then a relay clicks and they start to charge. I know if the batteries are really discharged they need a quick charge on the 12v charger 1 at a time then they can be hooked together and put back on the 24v charger again.

Maybe why we are getting nothing when the chargers are probed?

 

[Tracker]

That information would have been useful a few pages ago.....

Despite the scooter being and S3 version I suspect they use the same controller throughout the range therefore the schematic for the SE is likely to be the same: assuming this IS the case.........

View attachment 38360
You can see that the charger socket (CH1) has the three pins, pin 1 negative, 2 is positive and 3 is the charger control line. This is the yellow/green wire from the back of the socket shown in earlier pictures you posted.

Since you state:



then your charger is obviously ok.

The 'missing' item is the yellow/green (charging) signal wire which, I believe should be shorted to the negative wire.

With the charger OFF but plugged in to the XLR socket, measure the resistance between pins 1 and 3 (meter on ohms/continuity) and check that there is a short between them.

If there is then there is a fault on the 'rear board' - chase the yellow/green wire to JP3 to make sure it is connected and also check F3(? can't read it on the diagram but its labelled as 'lights fuse') as, strangely, this may be part of the charging circuit?????? < probably not, but no harm in trying.

Either way, the lack of voltage on your charger output is perplexing - the charger doesn't lead me to believe it auto-disconnects its output without a load connected but this 'may' be the case and therefore leading us to believe its faulty when measured disconnected but, in fact, it's not.

I'm sorry about not getting the charger checked out earlier, but was unable to get out a few pages ago.

I genuinely appreciate all the effort you have put into trying to help me, but please understand that I'm still trying to use the scooter, and it's something of a production to get to the front board and wiring and the same in the back and time consuming to disassemble for testing and reassemble for use. And I'm so far behind on my job that it may be 24+ hours before I can get back to this.

Meanwhile, please clarify: I didn't wire the new xlr port any differently than the old one. Each wire was connected back into its designated location, the green wired to the board, the black and blue wires to their mated quick connectors which cannot be reversed. You said the green wire "I believe should be shorted to the negative wire". I'm not familiar with this electronics concept. Are you saying I've connected it wrongly?

Also, if pin/socket 1 is - and 2 is +, how am I getting 24.7V reading with my red test lead in socket 1 and black in socket 2 on the scooter's port?

Thanks again.

 

[kellys_eye]

Also, if pin/socket 1 is - and 2 is +, how am I getting 24.7V reading with my red test lead in socket 1 and black in socket 2 on the scooter's port?

Dunno??? I did say the schematic 'may' be correct..... however if you measure at the back of the XLR and measure where the green/yellow goes (positive or negative?) you should then trace it back to the main board connector and try to show a picture of that area of the circuit board.....

I'm assuming the black wire from the XLR socket is the positive??? The colour coding they use for the cable cores is confusing.

Here in the UK the brown is usually 'live' and the blue 'neutral' but you can see a blue wire from the XLR going to a blue wire in a flying connector but the black wire from the XLR also seems to go to a blue wire in another flying connector???? Confusing....

 

[Tracker]

Dunno??? I did say the schematic 'may' be correct..... however if you measure at the back of the XLR and measure where the green/yellow goes (positive or negative?) you should then trace it back to the main board connector and try to show a picture of that area of the circuit board.....

I'm assuming the black wire from the XLR socket is the positive??? The colour coding they use for the cable cores is confusing.

Here in the UK the brown is usually 'live' and the blue 'neutral' but you can see a blue wire from the XLR going to a blue wire in a flying connector but the black wire from the XLR also seems to go to a blue wire in another flying connector???? Confusing....

It’s confusing alright, more so to me! I don’t think the green wire pin socket 3 is the negative. I measured at the black (+) and blue (-) wires with my probes. I’m obviously no electronics guy, but in the US green has always been ground afaik. I don’t know what it does plugged to the board. It was my understanding that it communicates to the controller that the charger is plugged in to inhibit scooter’s operation, but don’t hold me to it. I’m trying to get more information from Israel. Stand by.

 

[kellys_eye]

The green wire DOES communicate the charging requirement but it does so simply by being tied to ground (I'm assuming 'ground' i.e negative but it could equally tie the wire to 'positive'). Tying to ground is the usual method though.

Your charger plug will/should have the corresponding 'pin 3' simply shorted to the -ve output from the charger so that, when the plug is inserted, pin 3 on the XLR socket is pulled to negative (ground) and starts the charging process.

 

[Bryan McMullan]

Not following you. What might I have done wrong? I've owned this scooter 12 years, using the same kind of charger, same connections, same kind of batteries, same wiring. One plugs in the charger to the xlr port and turns on the charger. It charges batteries to 100%, then switches to a trickle charge.

o determine if a battery charger is working or not the Voltage present at its output plug needs to be tested with a multimeter. During testing the battery charger needs to be plugged into the wall and if it has a power switch it needs to be in the on position. If the charger has an output Voltage a little higher than the scooter, bike, or go karts rated battery pack Voltage then the battery charger is working. If the charger has no output Voltage then it may be broken or worn out, have a blown fuse, or have a faulty output plug.then extreme care must be taken not to short circuit the prongs together during testing. Otherwise the charger may work at the beginning of the test but become damaged during testing and fail to work afterwards. When testing a battery charger whose output plug has prongs we recommend wrapping electrical tape around the metal part of the test probes leaving only the very end of the test probe exposed. This will eliminate the likelihood of creating a short circuit when testing the charger. There are many videos on the internet which may help you to understand this better. D o let me know if it worked or if you need some more tips.

 

[Tracker]

o determine if a battery charger is working or not the Voltage present at its output plug needs to be tested with a multimeter. During testing the battery charger needs to be plugged into the wall and if it has a power switch it needs to be in the on position. If the charger has an output Voltage a little higher than the scooter, bike, or go karts rated battery pack Voltage then the battery charger is working. If the charger has no output Voltage then it may be broken or worn out, have a blown fuse, or have a faulty output plug.then extreme care must be taken not to short circuit the prongs together during testing. Otherwise the charger may work at the beginning of the test but become damaged during testing and fail to work afterwards. When testing a battery charger whose output plug has prongs we recommend wrapping electrical tape around the metal part of the test probes leaving only the very end of the test probe exposed. This will eliminate the likelihood of creating a short circuit when testing the charger. There are many videos on the internet which may help you to understand this better. D o let me know if it worked or if you need some more tips.

I have been away from this for a few days and have been put in touch with a scooter repair technician locally as well as one in Florida referred to me by the scooter manufacturer in Israel. Both of them insist that the new chargers of my type marketed in the US cannot be tested directly for output from the xlr plug (some government safety standard implemented in recent years). I also contacted the charger manufacturer's tech who confirmed the same thing. Seems the only way to verify if the charger is charging is to check the battery voltage, then plug in the charger for a while and check the voltage again to see if it has increased. When I do so, on repeated occasions, the voltage does not go up.

Now, it is also my understanding that this does not prove the charger is defective, rather the fault may be in the scooter's electronics. That may well be, as when I plug my charger to a wheelchair the red charging light comes on the way it's supposed to when the charger is charging. I was not able to test whether the wheelchair's battery voltage increased as a result, but this charger's charging light has never indicated it is charging on my scooter.

I was told by the charger company that my new 5A charger, which replaced the 6A charger supplied with the scooter, is insufficient to charge my 75aH batteries, and I need at least 8A. I thought the critical difference between my old 6A and new 5A chargers was the length of time it would take to charge the batteries. If that is the case, and I buy an 8A charger, I think it is still not going to charge the batteries, assuming there is a scooter side fault preventing the charger from communicating with the batteries.

I'm still thinking my best bet is to connect a charger directly to the batteries, bypassing the scooter electronics, but I'm unclear now as to what aH charger I should get to charge these 75aH batteries. Any thoughts.

 

[kellys_eye]

Use the charger the manufacturer recommends. If a charger is fitted that has insufficient amperage then, if the batteries are quite flat (and open terminal battery voltage is not a reliable method of testing their charged status) then when it comes to applying a full charge current the charger may detect an over-current situation and switch itself straight off. This could happen fast enough that you don't notice any LED indication.

You could put a series resistor into the charging circuit (in series with the positive output wire) to limit the charging current and try again. A resistor of a few ohms and 10W rating will suffice for a quick test. This should limit any charge current sufficiently to allow charging to commence.

If you can get the batteries out of the scooter and charge them using a standard car battery charger (charged individually at the 12V rating) you may get the batteries back to a charge level sufficient for the proper charger to take over.

 

[Tracker]

Use the charger the manufacturer recommends. If a charger is fitted that has insufficient amperage then, if the batteries are quite flat (and open terminal battery voltage is not a reliable method of testing their charged status) then when it comes to applying a full charge current the charger may detect an over-current situation and switch itself straight off. This could happen fast enough that you don't notice any LED indication.

You could put a series resistor into the charging circuit (in series with the positive output wire) to limit the charging current and try again. A resistor of a few ohms and 10W rating will suffice for a quick test. This should limit any charge current sufficiently to allow charging to commence.

If you can get the batteries out of the scooter and charge them using a standard car battery charger (charged individually at the 12V rating) you may get the batteries back to a charge level sufficient for the proper charger to take over.

k-e, the batteries are not flat at all. They are >24V. The charger specs say charging won't be activated if they are 16V +/-0.2V. Mine are well above. The information I'm getting from several sources points to a problem with the scooter charging circuitry, and I believe direct charging of the batteries will be my least costly remedy. My only question now is what aH is the minimum necessary to charge two 75aH batteries, the time required to fully recharge not being critical since my usage allows up to 24 hours of charging. The charger supplied with the scooter was 6A and it recharged from about 60% state of charge in about 8 hours, which suited me fine. I assumed the new 5A charger would work but just take longer to charge. It's not clear to me that a high amperage charger (like 20A) is needed for my "big boy" batteries as some experts are advising. Battery/charging technology is above my pay grade, but common sense suggests I shouldn't need more than the 6A that worked for 12 years. Maybe the 5A is too low but I'm reluctant to purchase yet another charger, higher amperage, (online, they are not available locally), only to find it likewise will not work.