Hierarchical PDF-printing with Mentor "IC Station Schematics"?

[Joerg]

Hi Folks,

Question to IC designers who use Mentor: How can one spool a full
hierarchical schematic set into one big PDF file that is then searchable?

Searchability is important, IOW when you key "M63" into the search box
it should pop to the location of that FET. Not a problem with other CAD
packages but no idea about this one.

This CAD can spit out postscript so if push comes to shove maybe there
is a routine that can take dozens of those files and cram all of them
into one single searchable PDF-file.

 

[Joerg]

Gawd! They have you using real crap now?

Two rules:

1. The customer is king.
2. All other cases -> Go to rule #1

Properly created PDF's do this.

I know

Is the PostScript in the form of a single-document? Then the
"routine" is called Adobe Acrobat... simply double-click on a .ps file
and Acrobat creates a single-document .pdf equivalent.

That's just the problem. This software can only spit out individual
pages. So an IC consists of a few dozen individual *.ps files, one per
sheet :-(

Maybe there's something in the Linux world?

 

[Joerg]

[...]

Is the PostScript in the form of a single-document? Then the
"routine" is called Adobe Acrobat... simply double-click on a .ps file
and Acrobat creates a single-document .pdf equivalent.

That's just the problem. This software can only spit out individual
pages. So an IC consists of a few dozen individual *.ps files, one per
sheet :-(

Oh, and to add insult to injury, I just found that the *.ps files seem
to already be vector-based and even in GhostView one cannot search :-(

[...]

 

[Joerg]

Jim Thompson wrote:
[...]

This CAD can spit out postscript so if push comes to shove maybe there
is a routine that can take dozens of those files and cram all of them
into one single searchable PDF-file.
Is the PostScript in the form of a single-document? Then the
"routine" is called Adobe Acrobat... simply double-click on a .ps file
and Acrobat creates a single-document .pdf equivalent.

That's just the problem. This software can only spit out individual
pages. So an IC consists of a few dozen individual *.ps files, one per
sheet :-(

Oh, and to add insult to injury, I just found that the *.ps files seem
to already be vector-based and even in GhostView one cannot search :-(

[...]

My Acrobat seems to even be able to scan, then OCR, then create a
search. But you're still in the 19th Century, are you not ?

No, but some CAD seems to be. Of course I can scan and OCR them all but
to have to do that with every design iteration is going to be a pain in
the you know what ;-)

 

[Joerg]

Sort of like...

1. SWMBO is always right
2. When SWMBO is wrong refer to Rule #1 ;-)

Worse yet, I may have to use Cadence Virtuoso next month :-(

Well, low and behold, while Orcad crashes all the time and is IMHO not a
stable CAD it does allow to print via PDF Creator. And, voila, a fully
searchable PDF file comes out. So there may be hope Viruoso can do that
as well.

I have a simple minded set of headers that allow concatenating .ps
files. I'll look for that.

Well, I just found out that the *.ps files are vector-based and
themselves already non-searchable for text.

 

[Joerg]

On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 12:28:51 -0700, Jim Thompson

[snip]

I have a simple minded set of headers that allow concatenating .ps
files. I'll look for that.

...Jim Thompson

One way:

http://homepage3.nifty.com/tsato/tools/psjoin.html

What I do...

concatenate...

header.ps
|
all your .ps files in proper order
|
footer.ps

[snip]

And I use this tool...

http://www.jddesign.co.uk/

to concatenate.

Thanks, Jim. Unfortunately for that to work I'll have to find out if IC
Station can print PS-files with non-vector text.

Several times people have belittled my low cost schematic entry (Eagle)
but it can do all this stuff without any massaging. You can even select
whether you want vector fonts or real ones. In that respect it runs
circles around all this highfalutin big-$$$ stuff.

 

[[email protected]]

Well, low and behold, while Orcad crashes all the time and is IMHO not a
stable CAD it does allow to print via PDF Creator. And, voila, a fully
searchable PDF file comes out. So there may be hope Viruoso can do that
as well.

Do you know how to print all pages of a hierarchical schematic? I haven't
looked real hard but it seems it doesn't want to print more than the "first"
page (which may not even have the same RefIDs as any real page).

<...>

 

[Joerg]

Do you know how to print all pages of a hierarchical schematic? I haven't
looked real hard but it seems it doesn't want to print more than the "first"
page (which may not even have the same RefIDs as any real page).

Yes, that is one of the problems. If anyone knows how to coax it into
printing the hierarchy that would be great. Alternatively, some other
format like this dreaded PS could be used but only if the lettering is
not vector font because that seems to make it unsearchable.

Jim brought a few SW routines that he said can be used to concatenate PS
files into one common file, which can then be converted to PDF. But all
this only makes sense if searchability is given and maintained through
the whole chain of SW massages.

Sometimes when I see all the things that expensive CAD packages are
lacking but cheaper ones have, it's mind-boggling. It's like not having
power-steering on a Rolls-Royce.

 

[Charlie E.]

Yes, that is one of the problems. If anyone knows how to coax it into
printing the hierarchy that would be great. Alternatively, some other
format like this dreaded PS could be used but only if the lettering is
not vector font because that seems to make it unsearchable.

Jim brought a few SW routines that he said can be used to concatenate PS
files into one common file, which can then be converted to PDF. But all
this only makes sense if searchability is given and maintained through
the whole chain of SW massages.

Sometimes when I see all the things that expensive CAD packages are
lacking but cheaper ones have, it's mind-boggling. It's like not having
power-steering on a Rolls-Royce.

Hi Jeorg,
You just have to realize that you are not their target audience. ICs
are designed by big companies, with big design staffs, and the ability
to output PDF from their tools is way, way down on their list of
priorities. They never expect to actually print out a hard copy at
all, it should just remain in its native database, as it is 'too
large' to actually attempt printing! ;-)

Charlie

 

[[email protected]]

Yes, that is one of the problems. If anyone knows how to coax it into
printing the hierarchy that would be great. Alternatively, some other
format like this dreaded PS could be used but only if the lettering is
not vector font because that seems to make it unsearchable.

Jim brought a few SW routines that he said can be used to concatenate PS
files into one common file, which can then be converted to PDF. But all
this only makes sense if searchability is given and maintained through
the whole chain of SW massages.

Sometimes when I see all the things that expensive CAD packages are
lacking but cheaper ones have, it's mind-boggling. It's like not having
power-steering on a Rolls-Royce.

Sorry, I meant with OrCAD.

 

[Joerg]

Most of the time you can just concatenate PostScript files and then run
ps2pdf on the whole works. Remember to use the /b switch if you're
doing it with COPY in Windows, e.g.

copy /b sheet*ps all.ps

Thanks, I've tried that. When calling all.ps with GhostView I get a
barrage of error messages. Ignoring them it'll open but then only show
one of the sheets even though the file size had grown as expected.

ps2pdf all.ps

Even if it comes out as bitmaps, you can use the Any2DjVu converter to
get nice searchable .djvu files, which are often less than half the size
of the PDFs they replace.

Looks like concatenating those pesky *.ps files isn't so easy :-(

Next I'll try Jim's method (psjoin). Did some non-EE stuff this afternoon.

 

[Martin Riddle]

Joerg wrote:
Jim Thompson wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 11:18:14 -0700, Joerg
<[email protected]>
wrote:

[...]

This CAD can spit out postscript so if push comes to shove maybe
there
is a routine that can take dozens of those files and cram all of
them
into one single searchable PDF-file.
Is the PostScript in the form of a single-document? Then the
"routine" is called Adobe Acrobat... simply double-click on a .ps
file
and Acrobat creates a single-document .pdf equivalent.

That's just the problem. This software can only spit out individual
pages. So an IC consists of a few dozen individual *.ps files, one
per
sheet :-(

Oh, and to add insult to injury, I just found that the *.ps files
seem
to already be vector-based and even in GhostView one cannot search
:-(

[...]

My Acrobat seems to even be able to scan, then OCR, then create a
search. But you're still in the 19th Century, are you not ?

No, but some CAD seems to be. Of course I can scan and OCR them all
but
to have to do that with every design iteration is going to be a pain
in
the you know what ;-)

--

Have you tried to combine them with Ghostscript? You can combine PDF
files.
It's command line stuff, you'll be in Linux heaven on your windows box
;D

Cheers

 

[Joerg]

Jim Thompson wrote:
Joerg wrote:
Jim Thompson wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 11:18:14 -0700, Joerg
<[email protected]>
wrote:

[...]

This CAD can spit out postscript so if push comes to shove maybe
there
is a routine that can take dozens of those files and cram all of
them
into one single searchable PDF-file.
Is the PostScript in the form of a single-document? Then the
"routine" is called Adobe Acrobat... simply double-click on a .ps
file
and Acrobat creates a single-document .pdf equivalent.

That's just the problem. This software can only spit out individual
pages. So an IC consists of a few dozen individual *.ps files, one
per
sheet :-(

Oh, and to add insult to injury, I just found that the *.ps files
seem
to already be vector-based and even in GhostView one cannot search
:-(

[...]
My Acrobat seems to even be able to scan, then OCR, then create a
search. But you're still in the 19th Century, are you not ?

No, but some CAD seems to be. Of course I can scan and OCR them all
but
to have to do that with every design iteration is going to be a pain
in
the you know what ;-)

--

Have you tried to combine them with Ghostscript? You can combine PDF
files.
It's command line stuff, you'll be in Linux heaven on your windows box
;D

Cheers

Everyone around here works "on the cheap":

Adobe Acrobat, Create PDF, From Multiple Files, Add Files, Arrange
Files, OK... just as simple as that.

Again, I still have a wee problem: The *.ps files coming out of IC
Station are vector, not searchable.

 

[Joerg]

On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 22:50:23 -0400, "Martin Riddle"

Jim Thompson wrote:
Joerg wrote:
Jim Thompson wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 11:18:14 -0700, Joerg
<[email protected]>
wrote:

[...]

This CAD can spit out postscript so if push comes to shove maybe
there
is a routine that can take dozens of those files and cram all of
them
into one single searchable PDF-file.
Is the PostScript in the form of a single-document? Then the
"routine" is called Adobe Acrobat... simply double-click on a .ps
file
and Acrobat creates a single-document .pdf equivalent.

That's just the problem. This software can only spit out individual
pages. So an IC consists of a few dozen individual *.ps files, one
per
sheet :-(

Oh, and to add insult to injury, I just found that the *.ps files
seem
to already be vector-based and even in GhostView one cannot search
:-(

[...]
My Acrobat seems to even be able to scan, then OCR, then create a
search. But you're still in the 19th Century, are you not ?

No, but some CAD seems to be. Of course I can scan and OCR them all
but
to have to do that with every design iteration is going to be a pain
in
the you know what ;-)

--
Have you tried to combine them with Ghostscript? You can combine PDF
files.
It's command line stuff, you'll be in Linux heaven on your windows box
;D

Cheers


Everyone around here works "on the cheap":

Adobe Acrobat, Create PDF, From Multiple Files, Add Files, Arrange
Files, OK... just as simple as that.

Again, I still have a wee problem: The *.ps files coming out of IC
Station are vector, not searchable.

Image files made into PDF:

"If you did not apply OCR when you scanned the paper document, you can
apply it afterward using the Recognize Text Using OCR command."

Yes, OCR would be the last resort. Hoping it'll also catch the small
stuff, 90 degree rotated text, and so on.

It's sad that we even have to do this. The more expensive a CAD is the
closer the doc features seem to be to the stone age ;-)

So the method of last resort seems to be: Convert all PS-files into PDF.
Then get Adobe Acrobat, do an OCR on each one, then combine all of them.

 

[Joerg]

[snip]
Image files made into PDF:

"If you did not apply OCR when you scanned the paper document, you can
apply it afterward using the Recognize Text Using OCR command."

Yes, OCR would be the last resort. Hoping it'll also catch the small
stuff, 90 degree rotated text, and so on.

It's sad that we even have to do this. The more expensive a CAD is the
closer the doc features seem to be to the stone age ;-)

So the method of last resort seems to be: Convert all PS-files into PDF.
Then get Adobe Acrobat, do an OCR on each one, then combine all of them.

Are you absolutely sure that Mentor can't "print" to PDF? You do know
that you have to install a "PDF-writer" of some sort onto your system?
Printer drivers are NOT built-in to the CAD.

Yes, I know. Got to try but right now someone else has to do it because
I am 500 miles from that computer. And I'd have to tell them pretty much
exactly what to do so it won't take much time. From some CAD systems PDF
writer programs generate searchable PDF, from others they don't.

 

[Joerg]

On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 10:42:56 -0700, Jim Thompson

[snip]

Image files made into PDF:

"If you did not apply OCR when you scanned the paper document, you can
apply it afterward using the Recognize Text Using OCR command."

...Jim Thompson

I just scanned an article from Wired Magazine, and the OCR appears
PERFECT!

Can you load this PDF into Foxit or Adobe Acrobat Reader, have it appear
just as the scanned original, key "and" into the text search box and
then every time you click the arrow it hops to the next instantiation on
the word "and" and highlights it?

In other words, does it underlay an invisible but now searchable ASCII
text there?

(Adobe Acrobat Pro v7)

Found another one that seems to do it:

http://www.nitropdf.com/professional/ocr.htm

I've got archive software (Nuance PaperPort) which can concatenate PDF
pages. One of those biz packages that is supposed to guide you towards a
paperless office. But somehow it screws up the resolution. Which isn't
that great to begin with in the files coming out of IC Station.

 

[Joerg]

On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 10:42:56 -0700, Jim Thompson

[snip]

Image files made into PDF:

"If you did not apply OCR when you scanned the paper document, you can
apply it afterward using the Recognize Text Using OCR command."

...Jim Thompson

I just scanned an article from Wired Magazine, and the OCR appears
PERFECT!

(Adobe Acrobat Pro v7)

Well, shazam! Just found out that the paperless office software I have
on my PC (PaperPort) can import TIFF files (which IC Station can make),
concatenate them in user-selectable order and create a crisp and clean
multi-page PDF document from those.

That leaves just OCR and we can probably use Acrobat Pro for that.

 

[Joerg]

On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 10:42:56 -0700, Jim Thompson

[snip]
Image files made into PDF:

"If you did not apply OCR when you scanned the paper document, you can
apply it afterward using the Recognize Text Using OCR command."

...Jim Thompson
I just scanned an article from Wired Magazine, and the OCR appears
PERFECT!

Can you load this PDF into Foxit or Adobe Acrobat Reader, have it appear
just as the scanned original, key "and" into the text search box and
then every time you click the arrow it hops to the next instantiation on
the word "and" and highlights it?

In other words, does it underlay an invisible but now searchable ASCII
text there?

(Adobe Acrobat Pro v7)

Found another one that seems to do it:

http://www.nitropdf.com/professional/ocr.htm

I've got archive software (Nuance PaperPort) which can concatenate PDF
pages. One of those biz packages that is supposed to guide you towards a
paperless office. But somehow it screws up the resolution. Which isn't
that great to begin with in the files coming out of IC Station.

I haven't been able to throw a word at it that it can't find. And,
yes, it hops from occurrence-to-occurrence just like you want.

(I don't know about Foxit, I only use Adobe products ;-)

I found Foxit to be of better quality. Not the rendering which is a wee
bit inferior. But the number of crashes went from 2-3/day to zilch.

Might try this Nitro package. Looks like it only does OCR but supposedly
well and $100 is reasonable. Well, for you that would be the equivalent
of one lunch for the two of you, right?

 

[Rich Webb]

On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 10:42:56 -0700, Jim Thompson

[snip]

Image files made into PDF:

"If you did not apply OCR when you scanned the paper document, you can
apply it afterward using the Recognize Text Using OCR command."

...Jim Thompson

I just scanned an article from Wired Magazine, and the OCR appears
PERFECT!

(Adobe Acrobat Pro v7)

Well, shazam! Just found out that the paperless office software I have
on my PC (PaperPort) can import TIFF files (which IC Station can make),
concatenate them in user-selectable order and create a crisp and clean
multi-page PDF document from those.

That leaves just OCR and we can probably use Acrobat Pro for that.

Foxit's fancy package (Foxit Phantom) includes an OCR module, so if you
don't have Acrobat Pro handy, might give it a try. I haven't upgraded to
the latest release but the last one did quite a nice job on a PDF of a
scanned MIL-STD manual of some ancient vintage, turning it into a nice,
searchable document.

 

[Joerg]

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 10:42:56 -0700, Jim Thompson

[snip]
Image files made into PDF:

"If you did not apply OCR when you scanned the paper document, you can
apply it afterward using the Recognize Text Using OCR command."

...Jim Thompson
I just scanned an article from Wired Magazine, and the OCR appears
PERFECT!

Can you load this PDF into Foxit or Adobe Acrobat Reader, have it appear
just as the scanned original, key "and" into the text search box and
then every time you click the arrow it hops to the next instantiation on
the word "and" and highlights it?

In other words, does it underlay an invisible but now searchable ASCII
text there?


(Adobe Acrobat Pro v7)

Found another one that seems to do it:

http://www.nitropdf.com/professional/ocr.htm

I've got archive software (Nuance PaperPort) which can concatenate PDF
pages. One of those biz packages that is supposed to guide you towards a
paperless office. But somehow it screws up the resolution. Which isn't
that great to begin with in the files coming out of IC Station.
I haven't been able to throw a word at it that it can't find. And,
yes, it hops from occurrence-to-occurrence just like you want.

(I don't know about Foxit, I only use Adobe products ;-)

I found Foxit to be of better quality. Not the rendering which is a wee
bit inferior. But the number of crashes went from 2-3/day to zilch.

You must have DLL-hell on your machine. I don't have crashes.

Good software doesn't crash on mine either. Only two programs do,
Acrobat Reader and Orcad/PSpice. For both I am using alternatives that
never crash. So it cannot possibly be my computer. For example, for
schematics I use Cadsoft Eagle. It hasn't crashed in five year, not once.

[...]