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Help with Magnetek Model 6415 Power Converter

Hello everyone - first time here. I was hoping the knowledge out there could help me out. I have a Magnetek Model 6415 Power Converter which is putting out about 16.5vDC instead of the ~12 vDC it should be. The two DC outputs are rated at 15amps, but the 16.5vdc is just too much for some of my items in the RV.

Is there anything I can do, replace, or add, to reduce the voltage down to the necessary 12vDC



The links below are the Owners Manual along with a schematic.


http://imgur.com/eXhxllx
http://imgur.com/qwLmOjE
http://imgur.com/5T0DHcU
 

KrisBlueNZ

Sadly passed away in 2015
Hi there and welcome to Electronics Point :)

That "converter" is a full-wave rectified power supply without smoothing. It's "DC, Captain, but not as we know it". The output voltage consists of a line of camels' humps, not a flat DC voltage, as shown on the right in this picture.

As the manual says, "equipment limited to operation from pure 12 volt battery power including 12 volt TVs, radios, stereos, unfiltered fluorescent lights - must be connected directly into RV storage battery line, or equipped with filter - as Converters do not produce the "pure" 12 volt DC needed by these items."

It also has no regulation.

The characteristics of the output voltage will depend on what it's connected to. If you are only loading it lightly, and/or if one or more of your loads includes a large capacitor that "smooths out" the voltage in between the camel humps, the voltage you measure on your multimeter will be higher than the specified 12V.

Your best option for powering devices that need clean DC is a low dropout (LDO) regulator, powered from a large smoothing capacitor that's fed from your "converter" via a diode. This requires a circuit consisting of about ten components, which you can build up on a piece of stripboard. I can draw up a circuit diagram and choose the components if you tell me how much current you need to draw from the regulated and smoothed 12V rail.
 
Hi there and welcome to Electronics Point :)

That "converter" is a full-wave rectified power supply without smoothing. It's "DC, Captain, but not as we know it". The output voltage consists of a line of camels' humps, not a flat DC voltage, as shown on the right in this picture.

As the manual says, "equipment limited to operation from pure 12 volt battery power including 12 volt TVs, radios, stereos, unfiltered fluorescent lights - must be connected directly into RV storage battery line, or equipped with filter - as Converters do not produce the "pure" 12 volt DC needed by these items."

It also has no regulation.

The characteristics of the output voltage will depend on what it's connected to. If you are only loading it lightly, and/or if one or more of your loads includes a large capacitor that "smooths out" the voltage in between the camel humps, the voltage you measure on your multimeter will be higher than the specified 12V.

Your best option for powering devices that need clean DC is a low dropout (LDO) regulator, powered from a large smoothing capacitor that's fed from your "converter" via a diode. This requires a circuit consisting of about ten components, which you can build up on a piece of stripboard. I can draw up a circuit diagram and choose the components if you tell me how much current you need to draw from the regulated and smoothed 12V rail.


Thanks for the reply!! I would like the info on creating a regulated 12vdc. As far as current, you got me. I know the fuses are 15 amps, so I wouldn't want those to blow. In the RV, I run the following:

a) 4 or 5 12vdc incandesant lights ( not necessarily all at the same time)
b) small dc fridge (which also runs on either ac or propane)
c) a small CO2/LP Gas detector

if it matters, the only item that doesnt run on the 16.5vdc is the detector, I guess its just too much voltage. everything else runs normal.
 
It sounds like either your battery is shot, or you aren't using a battery.at all? That converter should "float charge" a 12 volt battery at around 13.5 volts. Without a good battery in the system, it will output a much higher voltage. That said, SOME of these converters have a small potentiometer internally, to adjust the output voltage.
 

KrisBlueNZ

Sadly passed away in 2015
The battery is not connected to the output of the rectifier. The power supply is not intended to float charge a battery - it just has a transformer with a centre-tapped secondary and two diodes (see the schematic linked in post #1). There is no regulation.

To the OP: Can you put your location in your profile please. Also, do you have any preferred supplier for electronic components?
 

KrisBlueNZ

Sadly passed away in 2015
According to the manual (also linked in the first post) it is not a float charger. There is a connection for a battery but it goes into a selector switch so the loads that are powered from the "converter" can be switched over to the battery when there is no mains power.

Relevant quotes from the manual:

"Provides 12 volt DC power - up to load limit - to operate 12 volt lights and motors in RV when connected to 120 volt power source."

"Equipment limited to operation from pure 12 volt battery power including 12 volt TVs, radios, stereos, unfiltered fluorescent lights - must be connected directly into RV storage battery line, or equipped with filter - as Converters do not produce the "pure" 12 volt DC needed by these items."

"When 120 VAC is NOT connected to the Electrical Center via commercial power or AC generator, put MANUAL SWITCH in "BATT" position. This will automatically switch 12 volt lights and motors to RV battery for power. When 120 VAC is again available, connect it to RV and put manual switch back in "CONV" position for Power Converter section to supply 12 VDC power for RV."

"NOTE: These converters are not suitable for battery charging."
 

KrisBlueNZ

Sadly passed away in 2015
OK here we go. Don't be freaked out by the amount of detail here. I intend to use this as a reference post that I can use to answer future similar questions.

Here's my suggested circuit.

269087.001.GIF

Many of the component values aren't specified on the diagram because they depend on your requirements. I've explained them below, and provided lots of links to specific recommended components on the Digikey web site.

Your existing Magnetek 6415 is on the left. I've shown the relevant parts of the internal circuit. The positive DC output is on the blue wire.

Any appliances that draw a lot of current and that don't need a clean DC supply should be powered from this point. I've shown this with an arrow marked "UNSMOOTHED". This will minimise unnecessary voltage drop and power dissipation (heating) in the regulator.

The other dotted box represents the part you will need to build - a circuit board inside a plastic enclosure, with holes drilled for ventilation (or you could mount the heatsink on the outside).

In this description I will be mentioning IL a lot. IL is the maximum current, in amps, that you will be drawing from the output of the regulator. If you have no idea how much current your appliance(s) need, you could assume 5A for IL.

F1 and F2 - PTC resettable fuses for input and output

Input current flows through F1 which protects the source against a fault in the regulator circuit.

Output current flows through F2 which protects the regulator against a shorted output. F2 should have a slightly lower rating than F1.

You could use a time delay or slow-blow fuse in these positions, but I've specified a device called a PTC resettable fuse, which has comparable performance but doesn't need to be replaced, for both positions. Just remove the fault and it will cool down and "reset". Very convenient.
DS - Schottky diode

The input current then passes through DS, which is a Schottky diode, with CS connected straight across it. Schottky diodes are like normal diodes but they have a much lower forward voltage, so they don't waste much power, and they don't heat up as much as normal diodes do. But they are susceptible to damage from short disturbances on the incoming voltage; CS protects DS from these disturbances - see later for component details for CS.

I have suggested a number of alternatives for DS. Choose one rated for at least 50% more than IL. You can choose one with a much higher rating than you need; an overrated diode may be easier to mount onto a small heatsink (some kind of heatsink will be needed if IL is more than 1A) and will reduce losses.
DS is needed so that positive sections of the "camels' humps" can charge the smoothing capacitors that follow it, but during the gaps, those capacitors will not discharge back into the loads that are connected onto the unsmoothed voltage rail.

CA and CB - smoothing capacitors

CA and CB are smoothing capacitors. I've shown two of them, but you may only need one, or you may want more than two, depending on how your requirements fit with the available components. These capacitors charge up to the peaks of the unsmoothed voltage rail, then hold the voltage during the gaps between the peaks. They smooth out the voltage at the input of the regulator so it stays high enough that the regulator can deliver a continuous output voltage. Capacitors in parallel add together, so the total smoothing capacitance is the sum of CA, CB, and any others.

The required amount of smoothing capacitance depends on IL. I recommend at least 3300 µF per amp of output current. For IL=5A I recommend at least four 4700 µF capacitors in parallel.

I've suggested a range of values from 3300 µF to 10,000 µF from Digikey with a 25V voltage rating. The best brands are the Japanese ones: Rubycon, Nichicon, United Chemi-Con (UCC) and Panasonic. These are all cylindrical radial (two wires emerge from one end) units that mount directly onto stripboard. Some of them have metal tags instead of wires; for these you will have to drill out the holes on the stripboard to make them fit.

If you want long rated lifetimes, use several of the long-life 3300 µF or 4700 µF units in parallel.
If you don't have enough smoothing capacitance, the first symptom will be dips on the output voltage at twice the mains frequency. This will cause a buzz in audio devices, and assorted symptoms in other types of appliances. Some may be greatly affected (but are not likely to be damaged) and some may be unaffected.

I this case, you can increase the smoothing capacitance, and/or reduce the regulator's output voltage.

U1 - low-dropout (LDO) linear regulator

The next section is the actual regulator. U1 is the regulator IC, and as you can see, I have specified several options, depending on IL. These regulators are members of the MIC29xxx family of low-dropout integrated regulators from Micrel. They're all documented in a single data sheet: http://www.micrel.com/_PDF/mic29150.pdf.

They're ideal for this application. The same circuit can be used for all members of the family, and they all come in 5-pin packages that can be mounted onto a heatsink. The 1.5A, 3A and 5A devices are in a "TO-220" package with 5 pins:

to220-5.jpg
The 7.5A device is in a similar but larger 5-pin package.

The 'x' in these part numbers is either B (non-RoHS) or W (RoHS-compliant); both are equally suitable.

Heatsink for U1

U1, and probably DS, will need some heatsinking.

The main parameter for a heatsink is its thermal resistance, which is measured in °C/W (degrees Celsius per watt). This number tells you how many degrees Celsius the device's temperature will increase above ambient (room temperature) for every watt of power it dissipates.

The regulator will dissipate around 3~5 watts for every amp drawn from it (let me know if you want an explanation of that figure). So if IL is 5A, the regulator will dissipate up to 20 watts. A heatsink with a thermal resistance of 3 °C/W will increase in temperature by 60 °C so if ambient temperature is 20 °C, it will run at 80 °C, which is the hottest I would recommend.

U1 can be screwed firmly (but not unnecessarily tightly) to the heatsink without any insulator. Its tab is internally connected to its middle pin, which is 0V, so the heatsink will be at 0V potential. Nothing should be allowed to short onto it.

The heatsink should be ventilated. It will draw cold air from below.
These heatsinks are specifically designed for TO-220 packages. You can also get generic heatsinks and drill your own mounting hole(s). See http://www.digikey.com/product-sear...thermal-heat-sinks/1179752?stock=1&quantity=1 for more heatsink options.

You can mount DS on the same heatsink as U1, but you need to use a TO-220 insulating kit (http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/fans-thermal-management/thermal-accessories/1180797?k=to-220 kit) with DS otherwise it will short the input voltage to the grounded heatsink.

CT and CS - 0.1 µF film capacitors

CT is a 0.1 µF capacitor that must be connected between pins 2 and 3 and located close to U1 for stability. CS protects DS from noise and disturbances on the input voltage that could possibly damage it.

0.1 µF, 63VAC film capacitor: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/R82EC3100AA70J/399-5861-ND/2571296 USD 0.22 x2

R1 and RA - 10k resistors

R1 pulls pin 1 high to enable the regulator. RA forms part of the voltage divider (along with RB) that sets the output voltage. http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/SFR2500001002FR500/PPC10.0KYCT-ND/596847 USD 0.26 x2

RB - resistor to set output voltage

The value of RB (in conjunction with RA) sets the regulator's output voltage. The formula from the data sheet is (RA / RB) = ((VOUT / 1.24) - 1). Substituting 10k for RA and rearranging for RB gives RB = 10k / ((VOUT / 1.24) - 1). So here are some values for RB for different output voltages.
Or you could use a trimpot for an adjustable output voltage: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/PV36W202C01B00/490-2880-ND/666507

CD

CD is the output decoupling capacitor. It must be 22 µF or more, and it must be a standard aluminium electrolytic. This is the best choice available from Digikey: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/EST227M035AG4AA/399-6615-ND/3083030 USD 0.42.

CONSTRUCTION

You can build the circuit up on stripboard - Google stripboard construction techniques. The layout is not critical apart from CT and CD which should be connected directly between the pins of U1 as close as possible to the device.

The schematic shows "pin 6" of U1 connected to 0V. This is just the mounting tab; it's internally connected through to pin 3 inside the regulator. You don't need to connect the tab or the heatsink to anything.
 
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It sounds like either your battery is shot, or you aren't using a battery.at all? That converter should "float charge" a 12 volt battery at around 13.5 volts. Without a good battery in the system, it will output a much higher voltage. That said, SOME of these converters have a small potentiometer internally, to adjust the output voltage.


The converter takes 120vac and converts it, the marine battery is seperate and works fine.

I didn't see any Pot to adjust, not saying it isnt there though. I didnt see one on the schematics...
The battery is not connected to the output of the rectifier. The power supply is not intended to float charge a battery - it just has a transformer with a centre-tapped secondary and two diodes (see the schematic linked in post #1). There is no regulation.

To the OP: Can you put your location in your profile please. Also, do you have any preferred supplier for electronic components?
I live outside of Buffalo, NY - only place I can think of to purchase items is Radio Shack...
 
Hello
I got a 86 Coleman Savannah pop up with the 6400 series converter. . It has the 6415 model with 2- 15 amp fuses. It keeps blowing fuses. All outlets work even with blown fuses. But lights don't work. I guess I have a short somewhere? I don't know where to look. The outlet works on the converter also. I'm running ac power. Thanks yall for the help
 
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