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Heatsinks for very hot Xbox Chips

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XBOX game machine IC chips , microcontrollers get very very hot

They Used Thermal paste and put a heatsink on top of the IC chips and microcontrollers

How can you make the microcontrollers cooler in temperature?
what type of heatsinks would make it cooler temperature?
Does using Thermal paste help with the temperature? or would thermal tape be better?
Does using a different type of heatsink help on cooling down the temperature of very hot microcontrollers or other IC chips?
 

KrisBlueNZ

Sadly passed away in 2015
Forced air (i.e. a fan blowing air through the heatsink fins) will make the biggest difference. If there's already a fan, you might try replacing it with one with higher airflow. Other changes won't make such a big difference. I don't have much experience; others will be able to help more.
 
Do you think a different type of heatsink with more fins or heavier metal, or a bigger size heatsink makes a difference?
or just a bigger Fan to put ontop of the heatsink?
 

hevans1944

Hop - AC8NS
Gamers who are fond of overclocking their CPUs sometimes go to great extremes to remove heat: water-cooled heat exchangers and Peltier heat pumps are some of the "solutions" offered. Adding more fans, or a more powerful fan, is the least expensive solution, but in the end you are still left with the thermal resistance from junction-to-case and the thermal resistance from case-to-ambient. Even if you lower ambient temperature to the dew point (but not lower, to avoid condensation) there is only a finite amount of power that can be dissipated. If the XBOX game is working at its design temperature, no matter how "hot" that feels to the touch, I wouldn't mess with it. We have a PS3 that gets quite warm, so I purchased a stand to allow it to stand vertically and promote better convection cooling, but I figure Sony knew what they were doing when they designed it. It has been running for about five years now, more or less continuously, without problems. I have no experience with the Microsoft XBox system.
 
So the CPU's get very hot because of the Overclocking? are they overclocking the CPU's because they have to do some much data in a small time

The PS1 and XBOX 1 has issues of the CPU's getting over hot, they will shut down after so many hours of playing

When the CPU's get so hot doesn't this cause thermal damage to the CPU's chips?

Because the game machines will stop working, i can't get them to work until a month later they will turn on for some reason and work for about a week and then it will stop working. It must be thermal damage internally inside the CPU's or something. That or the power supplies i think are switching power supplies, they could something wrong with the power supplies that would cause it to shut down.

Is thermal paste or Thermal Tape better for transferring heat?
 

(*steve*)

¡sǝpodᴉʇuɐ ǝɥʇ ɹɐǝɥd
Moderator
Toothpaste works better than chocolate as a thermal paste.

I recommend you google heatsinking calculations.

I think all your original questions are dealt with now. Can we close this thread?
 
Does your console have a fan for forced air cooling?

Yes it has a fan

I'm guessing these computer or CPU fans have a cooling rating?

Because there is some fans that are attached to the heat sinks of CPU's , I"m not sure what these types of fans are called , but they do have special CLIPS to attach the fan to the heat sink
 

KrisBlueNZ

Sadly passed away in 2015
Danny has asked me to reopen this thread. He thinks other users may have more to add. He doesn't have any other threads open, so I think that's reasonable.
 

hevans1944

Hop - AC8NS
So the CPU's get very hot because of the Overclocking? are they overclocking the CPU's because they have to do some much data in a small time

No, overclocking will increase the CPU power dissipation as well as its speed, but IF the CPU heat-sink, fan, and air circulation inside the box are poorly designed, the CPU can run hotter than desirable even at its originally specified clock speed. Most users do not attempt to overclock their XBox. Those that do overclock risk damage to the CPU and will void whatever warranty their system might have. Gamers apparently have deep pockets and don't mind overclocking until their chips die from excessive heat. They just buy new chips and try again, perhaps with improved heat sink capability. It is a game I don't care to participate, but there are those who seek an advantage (especially in on-line multi-player games) in faster response. You pays your money and you takes your chances.
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The PS1 and XBOX 1 has issues of the CPU's getting over hot, they will shut down after so many hours of playing

This could be a design oversight. Who in their right mind would play a game for hours on end until the CPU gets hot enough to shut down? They should get a REAL life.

When the CPU's get so hot doesn't this cause thermal damage to the CPU's chips?

It can, especially on older processors without internal thermal sensing and protection circuits built into the CPU. Most new CPUs do have thermal sensing on the chip and will automagically refuse to operate if the chip temperature gets too high.

Because the game machines will stop working, i can't get them to work until a month later they will turn on for some reason and work for about a week and then it will stop working. It must be thermal damage internally inside the CPU's or something. That or the power supplies i think are switching power supplies, they could something wrong with the power supplies that would cause it to shut down.

Who knows what is going on? In my experience, thermal damage is catastrophic and unrecoverable, whether it is a chip or a power supply. Even if a chip doesn't "let the smoke out" it can be so damaged as to be non-functional, even after it cools off. I doubt whether waiting a "month later" has any influence on whether it will work again. Once everything cools down to ambient (room) temperature it should work again if nothing is damaged. Waiting a month will not affect that. Not using the game machines excessively will prevent their overheating and shutdown. How do you determine excessive use? If the machine shuts down after a few hours because of overheating, that is excessive use. The only "cure" I know of is to buy or build a better gaming machine, an expensive procedure that can cost upwards of ten thousand dollars for the "serious" gamer.

Is thermal paste or Thermal Tape better for transferring heat?

Neither one is very good at transferring heat. Only metal-to-metal contact transfers heat efficiently. Industrial semiconductors often have heat sinks welded to their package to promote more efficient heat transfer. If you look at the surface of a heat sink and the surface of a CPU package under a microscope it will look like a mountain range with zillions of microscopic hills and valleys. When pressed together, only the "mountain tops" make metal-to-metal contact. The valleys trap air which is not a very good thermal conductor. The purpose of thermal paste is to "fill in" the "valleys" with something a little bit more thermally conductive than air. It doesn't take much, just a microscopically thin film. Too much thermal paste is worse than none at all because it can coat the "mountain tops" and prevent metal-to-metal contact there. It doesn't do much good to polish the two surfaces mirror-bright either. That makes the "mountain tops" shorter but the "valleys" are still there slowing down the heat transfer. If I had a preference I would choose thermal paste because it is cheaper and can be applied in a thin layer. Thermal tape is whatever thickness it is, and it can be too thick for efficient heat transfer. That said, most CPU heat sinks are provided with a wafer of thermal tape, presumably for convenience and to ensure there is at least some thermal compound between the CPU and the heat sink. Never try to re-use this stuff. If the heat-sink is ever removed from the CPU, both surfaces need to be cleaned and a fresh wafer of thermal tape applied when they are reassembled.
 
Another large problem I have experienced with my laptop in the past is the vents getting blocked, I do not know the location of these on the xbox however preferably the xbox should be on a solid surface and have nothing pressed up against the sides. My laptop is usually fine, however once I left it on the sofa once and it bsod'ed. I hope that this helps.
 
Please give us details on which Xbox you are talking about.
There is the first gen Xbox, usually black plastic blocky with a green "X" emblem on the top.
Then there are the 360 models.
There have been a few revisions, lets just call them phat and slim.
phat has an external harddrive fastened to one end, and the slim has an internal harddrive.

Heat problems are almost non-existent with the original XBox consoles.
Heat problems were rampant on the first generation of the phat Xbox 360 consoles.
Heat problems were mitigated on the following generations of the phat Xbox 360 consoles,
Heat problems have been mitigated additionally on the slim Xbox 360 consoles.

The heatsink can not really be improved on based on the very very tight spaces involved within the console. This is true for all Xbox consoles.
The heating problems present in the 360 consoles usually result in the GPU's connection to the board being stress fractured resulting in the 'Red Ring of Death'. (Error Code.)
This is commonly resolved with physically clamping the GPU (and CPU) to the board much harder to physically hold them together. This is not a 100% fix, but has lots of success.
Other users use external case modifications to force more air through the console to help keep the temperature down. This is preventative, and will not 'repair' a broken console.
I have personally opened my 360, replaced the fans with some that provide additional airflow at the expense of being louder, and inserted a small divider to divide the main air channel between the CPU and GPU. (As the same fan assembly covers both) My box still died from the stress fractures mentioned above.

Heat is caused by the processor during operation, as it's a collection of millions of transistors. They do not switch instantly, so everytime they switch they generate a little bit of heat. When you do lots of work on a processor, it switches more often generating more heat. If you overclock the processor it will switch even faster... you guessed it. making more heat. Additionally, the voltage to the processor is sometimes increased to compensate for the losses that are caused by switching much faster than originally designed... and yes, you guessed it. Higher voltage equals more heat.

So to combat this, you have two options:
-Make less heat.
-Remove the heat faster than it can build up.

Make less heat
This is common among cell-phones and other mobile devices. The goal here is to slow down the processor and run it at it's slowest possible setting that can still accomplish your tasks. The processor will automatically speed itself up when your tasks begin to require more processing power. So these types of applications are not always 'slower'. They just don't sprint if they can do the same job walking.
I personally limit my phones processor to just under 2/3 of it's maximum to prevent games and other apps from making it run too hot. This has had great results, but there is a trade-off.
A slow processor takes longer to do a complicated task then a fast processor. A slow processor will use less power... but for a longer time... This does not help too much with 'battery life' because getting the job done in a fraction of the time and having the processor sleep will use a similar amount of power than having a weak processor to the same job over a few seconds before going to sleep.

Remove heat
This is common on pretty much anything that you can possibly fit a heatsink to. Laptops included. (Although the heatsink is smaller)
The limitation here is that the heatsinks are bulky. The simple addition of a heatsink will add more surface area to the processor which will help the heat to disperse at a faster rate. The surface area is important, it's the reason for all of the fins on a heatsink.
You can make a heatsink more efficient by improving the connection it has to the processor. This is done with heatsink compound/paste... or as mentioned above, toothpaste :p
This fills any small air gaps in between the processor and heatsink which will help to carry the heat away from the processor. Different compounds are better than others... but even with a perfect compound, you will still be limited by the heatsink's ability to disperse the heat. Remember the paste will help it to work to it's potential but will not make it work better than it was meant to.
Then you can help it disperse the heat better by improving air-flow. Heatsinks simply allow the air to pick up the heat and carry it away... so if you allow for more airflow you can cool the processor faster.
You can also use forced air cooling from a fan to force much more air across the heatsink to dissipate even more heat into the air. Remember though, that the cooler the air is, the more heat it can take. If you have a fan inside a cabinet, it may be able to move the air, but the air will warm up and get recirculated as warm air which will not carry away the heat as well. It is NOT a good idea to operate devices which generate heat inside a cabinet. You can also go to extremes and use liquid cooling. Many liquids can take a lot more heat, a lot more efficiently than air. So this will allow the heatsink to operate even better than with air... you just need a way to keep any harmful liquids away from the electronics. Of course, when using liquid, you can now use a smaller heatsink.
Then you can go to extremes and submerge everything in liquid, or use things like liquid nitrogen or small Air Conditioning coils...
 
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Thanks for the information and your time , i will look into this more and research it

You can close this thread, can i have another thread subject
 
Thanks for the information and your time , i will look into this more and research it

You can close this thread, can i have another thread subject
Not a problem.
I'm sure you can tell that many of us like to share what we know. Just slow down a little in your other posts and show us you are listening and considering what we are saying. We don't like sharing into thin air. If we did, we'd write a big complicated pointless book...
At least then I could just tell you to check page 313...
 
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