Heathkit arising again?

[Joerg]

Folks,

Just received a link from a ham radio operator where they do a survey. I
just completed it, looks like they are scoping out what to offer in
terms of new kits and stuff:

http://heathkit.com/survey/index.php/278489

That brings back fond memories. I still have my old HW-100 transceiver
and the HD-1250 dipmeter (that one is actually in use here).

 

[Martin Riddle]

Heathkit was fine for radios and other RF-related, but was fondly
known as HeapShit otherwise ;-)

For audio I generally did Dynaco, like the PAT-4 preamp.

There was some other kit manufacturer, whose name I can't remember,
built a very nice VOM (tube, of course

...Jim Thompson

EICO

I have a 232 here, works fine. Uses a 12AU7.
<http://www.nostalgickitscentral.com/eico/products/eico_test.html>

The plastic red/black probe is finally starting to decay ;(

Cheers

 

[[email protected]]

Folks,

Just received a link from a ham radio operator where they do a survey. I
just completed it, looks like they are scoping out what to offer in
terms of new kits and stuff:

http://heathkit.com/survey/index.php/278489

Tried to answer, put hitting Next returned to the first question page,
even after selecting some answers .

That brings back fond memories. I still have my old HW-100 transceiver
and the HD-1250 dipmeter (that one is actually in use here).

Building equipment from kits made sense in the days of point to point
wiring (tube sockets and soldering posts). Making equipment
commercially, required a huge amount of manual labor, making equipment
extremely costly, at least when measuring how many hours a radio
assembly line worker had to work in order to buy the radio he/she had
assembled.

By shifting this assembly cost to the "free" hobbyist, made it
possible to sell kits much cheaper than ready made products.

In the days of point to point wiring, making
modifications/improvements was pretty easy.

With PCBs and especially surface mounted components, commercial
assembly costs dropped significantly.

However, in order to let an average hobbyist solder components to a
PCB, larger than necessary tracks are needed. Handling a large number
of unmarked SMDs is error prone. Hand soldering a multipin SOIC is
demanding for a hobbyist.

IMHO, there is no point of hand soldering individual components, it is
much more reliable and cost efficient to use industrial wave soldering
for that.

A kit producer might survive if it provides some factory made building
blocks that can be combined into various devices. I am thinking about
something between Mini-Circuits and Elecraft.

When people with wildly different skills are building kits, a support
organization is required and this costs a lot, even if some
peer-to-per support groups will handle most of the work. Still
supplying replacement parts is going to be costly.

Anyway, "kit building" in the future is more about connecting software
and firmware components together rather than joining resistors,
capacitors and transistors.

 

[Joerg]

Aha! Indeed! Wonder if the probe is replaceable?

I still got mine. Heathkit had a FET meter but that was one of the not
so great kits they sold, was never very accurate.

 

[Joerg]

Allow me to join you on your trip down Memory Lane. There's a Vacuum
Tube Voltmeter Model IM-5228 keepsake that still sits on my shelf (boxed
up). My need to de-clutter my life by removing ancient floobydust forced
me to dispose of my boat anchor Heathkit TV set a while ago.

I wish I'd built that instead if the lesser performing FET multimeter.
But they didn't offer the tube meter anymore when I grew up. So I got a
used Eico.

 

[Tauno Voipio]

Folks,

Just received a link from a ham radio operator where they do a survey. I
just completed it, looks like they are scoping out what to offer in
terms of new kits and stuff:

http://heathkit.com/survey/index.php/278489

That brings back fond memories. I still have my old HW-100 transceiver
and the HD-1250 dipmeter (that one is actually in use here).

There seems to be something fishy with the survey,
it does not work.

I still have a SB-220 of 1972 (a linear amplifier
with two bottles, 3-500Z).

 

[Joerg]

Tried to answer, put hitting Next returned to the first question page,
even after selecting some answers .

I think it needs Javascript turned on.

Building equipment from kits made sense in the days of point to point
wiring (tube sockets and soldering posts). Making equipment
commercially, required a huge amount of manual labor, making equipment
extremely costly, at least when measuring how many hours a radio
assembly line worker had to work in order to buy the radio he/she had
assembled.

By shifting this assembly cost to the "free" hobbyist, made it
possible to sell kits much cheaper than ready made products.

In the days of point to point wiring, making
modifications/improvements was pretty easy.

With PCBs and especially surface mounted components, commercial
assembly costs dropped significantly.

However, in order to let an average hobbyist solder components to a
PCB, larger than necessary tracks are needed. Handling a large number
of unmarked SMDs is error prone. Hand soldering a multipin SOIC is
demanding for a hobbyist.

IMHO, there is no point of hand soldering individual components, it is
much more reliable and cost efficient to use industrial wave soldering
for that.

I strongly believe there is a point. Nothing beats the feeling of
accomplishment in a kid or young student after they complete a kit and
it all works. When it doesn't work it provides a really good opportunity
to hone troubleshooting skills. That pays off on the first real job, big
time.

I learned the most not from building Heathkit gear but from helping
others salvage their capsized Heathkit projects. "I heard a sharp *POP*
from where those 6164 tubes are and then there was smoke, but I can't
find where that came from ...", stuff like that.

A kit producer might survive if it provides some factory made building
blocks that can be combined into various devices. I am thinking about
something between Mini-Circuits and Elecraft.

When people with wildly different skills are building kits, a support
organization is required and this costs a lot, even if some
peer-to-per support groups will handle most of the work. Still
supplying replacement parts is going to be costly.

Well, it did work in the 60's and 70's, so why can't it work again? I
just believe they place too much emphasis on ham radio (and I am a
licensed ham myself), and there will probably not be enough market for
kits in that. So I suggested they concentrate on robotic and home
automation.

Anyway, "kit building" in the future is more about connecting software
and firmware components together rather than joining resistors,
capacitors and transistors.

You may be right. Unfortunately that's one reason why many young
engineers these days run aground easily when facing a hardware problem.

 

[Joerg]

I spend some summer time working in a Heath retail store in downtown
Smog Angeles during the late 1960's. It was a bizarre experience and
probably my initial realization that people really do not read or
follow instructions. I still have quite a bit of Heathkit hardware,
some built, some bought, mostly test equipment.

I filled out the survey to the bitter end. It took about 30 minutes.
Judging by the questions, the plan seems to be very ham radio centric.

Absolutely, too ham-centric. And I say that as a guy with a ham radio
license.

The problem is that before about 1975, it was possible to save money
building a kit. ...

There are still areas. Home automation, for example. Because that
industry is sound asleep, tons of opportunity including lots of
follow-up business.


After the components shrank, robotic assembly

arrived, and the complexity increased, the situation was reversed,
where the added cost of handling, documentation, and support priced
the kits above those of completed units. There are small companies,
such as Elecraft, that apparently are able to offer a price benefit to
kit building. However, were they to outsource the product assembly to
China, the finished unit would probably be cheaper than the kit. There
were also questions about social media, gatherings, user groups, and
meeting the management, which suggests that Heathkit is trying to
capitalize on its cult following. I hope they are successful, but I'm
not very optimistic. Just about anything they design from scratch,
will be easily cloned by China, and sold on eBay at a substantial
discounts.
<www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=electronic+kit>

That's the major danger they are facing. I believe it is nearly
impossible to have all kits made in America. At least not right now.

The only way to succeed and thwart pilfering is to include at least one
part that must be bought at the company store. For example, a
pre-programmed uC. With home automation that would be no problem.

 

[Joerg]

There seems to be something fishy with the survey,
it does not work.

Worked for me.

I still have a SB-220 of 1972 (a linear amplifier
with two bottles, 3-500Z).

I wanted bigger, so built two of my own back then. The 2nd one with two
QB5/1750 with around 5kV on the plates.

 

[Tim Williams]

I have a VTVM that I still use frequently; amazingly the AC bandwidth is
far in excess of any DMM (up to 7MHz or so). The impedance (and clip
leads!) up there isn't guaranteed to be useful, of course.

Tim

 

[Joerg]

Heathkits helped a generation of kids to really understand
electronics. That model, build working instruments from parts, may not
work any more. ...

It does in robotics, and might in home automation. Both markets are
seriously underserved.

... I wonder where the next generation of electronic
circuit designers (not chip designers) will come from.

Right now I don't have much of an idea. Maybe they'll have to drag us
out of nursing homes

There's not much point to classic ham radio any more, either, what
with cell phones, ipads, internet, and Skype type things.

Well, there are always those who will whip out the credits card and buy
a painting. And then there are those who will whip out the brushes and
paint. The ratio has been skewed towards the non-innovative folks but
hope is not lost.

 

[cameo]

Heathkit was fine for radios and other RF-related, but was fondly
known as HeapShit otherwise ;-)

They also made nice PC kits available, I built my first XT-compatible
from their kit. I also built a Geiger counter among other gadgets. I
sure miss the company. They should never have sold out to Zenith.

 

[Joerg]

[...]

It does in robotics, and might in home automation. Both markets are
seriously underserved.

It seems to me like there's way too much silly robotics. I guess it
does get some kids into real electronics, like motors and sensors and
control theory and actual bare-metal realtime programming. But most
robots are toys.

So was most of the stuff I built as a kid. Much of it lost its luster
the millisecond it worked. Like my pong game which I gave away without
playing even one game. But you learn an increadible amount of practical
electronics, stuff universities never teach.

Meanwhile, the demand for what we do keeps increasing. Everything is
electronic now, and there is *so* much bad electronics out there.

Yeah, look at some cars :-(

The trend is also visible in the embedded (non-analog) world. Our pellet
stove controller contains some things in the uC code that I'd consider
blunders. And sometimes in the summer it turns itself on. So we have to
unplug it.

 

[Joerg]

Most home automation gear requires a monthly subscription, to connect
to a server somewhere. That is both a revenue model and a way to avoid
port hassles. A Dropbox-based system (like mine!) can overcome that.

It can be done without "calling home". All that most people want is that
the electric stuff in the home becomes more intelligent. Like lights
going on and off via dawn-dusk timers, seasonally adjusted. Or push a
button in the bedroom and that starts the coffee maker. Have it
automatically turned off after 1/2h or so in case someone forgets. Close
the garage door if uncle Leroy forgets again (you wouldn't believe how
often I saw that happen). X-10 does all of that but it is IMHO clunky
and unreliable.

 

[Joerg]

They also made nice PC kits available, I built my first XT-compatible
from their kit. I also built a Geiger counter among other gadgets. I
sure miss the company. They should never have sold out to Zenith.

Maybe they had to? For many years they were affiliated with
Schlumberger. Which I found odd or interesting, because when I worked
there on an oil rig they were all into oil/gas exploration. I never
figured out how a kit business fit in there.

 

[Joerg]

As a kid with modest budget I decided to build my own cantenna. It had
an SWR <2 even at 2m. Could do a good kilowatt for 10-15 minutes, then
you had to let the oil cool down. It lasted over 30 years and then the
old honey pot (literally, it was one) began to rust and eventually leaked.

 

[Martin Riddle]

Aha! Indeed! Wonder if the probe is replaceable?

...Jim Thompson

It has a twist tip to select AC or DC measurements. There is a 1G
resistor for DC and a pass thru for AC-ohms.
I've used it with a RF probe in the past, don't recall measuring DC
with out the 1G resistor. It's supposed to limit the cable capacitance
from affecting the DUT.

But its easy to fab 2 replacements for the 1 probe.

Cheers

 

[Martin Riddle]

Absolutely, too ham-centric. And I say that as a guy with a ham radio
license.

Amature Radio was hot in the 70's. I remember 73 magazine was almost
1/4" thick. Similar to Byte in the 80's and computer shopper in the
90's.

What the latest magazine thats 1/4" thick?


Cheers

 

[John S]

I have remote temperature acquisition and heater controls in our
cabin, and a webcam looking at the driveway, so I can check the snow
depth and turn on the heat before we drive up. I can start the coffee
maker (kettle, drip cone) myself.

We've seeded our workplace with cams, two on each floor. When the
alarm company calls me at 2AM with (so far) false alarms, I can go
online and check the place out, instead of getting dressed and driving
in and meeting the cops there. Best use for the Web so far!

If you can do all those other things, why not do your own alarms rather
than being awakened at 2AM? Not being critical, just wondering.

I have a country home about 90 miles away. I built a gizmo to call my
cell phone it the temperature is too high, too low, power off, and other
triggers. It has worked wonderfully for years using the PSoC1 which does
the DTMF dialing itself.

John S

 

[brent]

I still got mine. Heathkit had a FET meter but that was one of the not
so great kits they sold, was never very accurate.

Ha, I built the VTVM as a high school project, but I really wanted to
build the FET meter because it was more portable. I think the FET
meter was not available at the time of purchase (out of stock) so I
built the VTVM but always felt disappointing. I never gave it too
much thought, and certainly threw my VTVM away years ago. Now I find
out after all these years that I had built the preferable model. I
doubt I would have used it around the house instead of the very small
hand held meters which have been available for years.