H-1B Visas; Why isn't This a Bigger Issue With Engineers

[rickman]

We have been in a down economy for how many years now? Unemployment has
been high for many technical fields for some time and the last few years
has seen unemployment rise dramatically for electrical engineers. So
why aren't EEs asking their elected representatives why they continue
the H-1B visa program?

I think it is pretty much common knowledge that the H-1B visa program is
being used and abused as a way to in-source workers and directly replace
existing US workers from their jobs. How many here have lost a job to
an H-1B visa holder or knows someone who has?

How many here have voiced their opinion to their US representatives?

 

[Joerg]

We have been in a down economy for how many years now? Unemployment has
been high for many technical fields for some time and the last few years
has seen unemployment rise dramatically for electrical engineers. So
why aren't EEs asking their elected representatives why they continue
the H-1B visa program?

I think it is pretty much common knowledge that the H-1B visa program is
being used and abused as a way to in-source workers and directly replace
existing US workers from their jobs. How many here have lost a job to
an H-1B visa holder or knows someone who has?

How many here have voiced their opinion to their US representatives?

H-1B is necessary because there is talent we simply cannot find enough
of in the US (such as analog design). Also transducer engineers and so
on. But it's abused, no question about it, and we all know the kind of
companies that abuse it.

The solution is _not_ abolishing H-1B. The solution is to enforce the
prevailing wage which is law. It's as simple as that and would cost next
to nothing because one lone PC can do this job. I have suggested that
many times but nobody listens.

Fixing H-1B is as easy as fixing an oscillating opamp by adding a few
hundred pF of capacitance from OUT to IN-. This is why I cannot
understand why some engineers advocate ditching the whole program (which
isn't going to happen anyhow). That's like saying "Oh, it oscillates, so
let's scrap this whole product line, it's no good".

 

[Gib Bogle]

The consulting biz is way slow... don't know how much of that is due
to H-1B visas... or just Obama's debilitating regulations... and the
ripple-down effects of ObamaCare.

But such visas do improve the number of voters for the Democrats,
which is Obama's object. Though not legal, don't be surprised if he
finagles a third term in his quest forward toward being "elected"
Glorious Leader for Life.

The slowdown is definitely Obama's doing. Everything was ticking along
fine before he came along.

Your duckwittedness exceeds all my expectations.

 

[tm]

The slowdown is definitely Obama's doing. Everything was ticking along
fine before he came along.

Your duckwittedness exceeds all my expectations.

Yeah, you libtards are still blaming it all on Bush. When do you think Obomo
will accept being President? Ever?

Putz.

 

[Tom Del Rosso]

The consulting biz is way slow... don't know how much of that is due
to H-1B visas... or just Obama's debilitating regulations... and the
ripple-down effects of ObamaCare.

Check this out.

How to multiply GDP by a factor of 6.

Of course the first step is getting rid of teachers' unions.

 

[Gib Bogle]

Yeah, you libtards are still blaming it all on Bush. When do you think
Obomo will accept being President? Ever?

Putz.

Another duckwit. Obama IS president, you fool. I didn't mention Bush,
and in case you failed to notice, there is a global economic slowdown
affecting most of the industrialized countries. Have you read the news
about the UK, Spain, France recently? Do you have any awareness of
what's going on in the world?

 

[Gib Bogle]

Check this out.

How to multiply GDP by a factor of 6.

Of course the first step is getting rid of teachers' unions.

Those unions that Obama created, right?

 

[[email protected]]

Those unions that Obama created, right?

Have you any idea how much they spent to get him in, or how many tens
of billions he's sent them since? Do you know even the tiniest bit of
how and why they're all tied at the hip?

Why comment on U.S. politics when you live so far away and know
nothing of it?

 

[[email protected]]

We have been in a down economy for how many years now? Unemployment has

been high for many technical fields for some time and the last few years

has seen unemployment rise dramatically for electrical engineers. So

why aren't EEs asking their elected representatives why they continue

the H-1B visa program?



I think it is pretty much common knowledge that the H-1B visa program is

being used and abused as a way to in-source workers and directly replace

existing US workers from their jobs. How many here have lost a job to

an H-1B visa holder or knows someone who has?



How many here have voiced their opinion to their US representatives?

Why should American employers be forced to hire a problematic, overpaid, ingrate and personality disordered [read narcissist] U.S. citizen with an entitlement complex when they can hire the same or better level of competence from overseas?
American engineers aren't the only game in town, those days are over, and good riddance to them.

 

[[email protected]]

How many here have voiced their opinion to their US representatives?

I have voiced my opinion to my Congress man and my Senators. But my
opinion is that we are stupid to not offer green cards to all the
foreigners that get advanced technical degrees at U.S. colleges. Do
not screw around with H-1B visa's. Give them a green card so they can
count on staying here as long as they want and change employers as
they desire.


Dan

 

[Ecnerwal]

Without a couple of million $ (each) in bribes (oh, right, "campaign
contributions") it's a waste of time, because the "people" who make
{m|b|tr}illions by claiming there is a "shortage of talent" (which, if
ever real, is only a "shortage of talent willing to be underpaid") have
already bought "your" congresscritter, and "your" concresscritter won't
listen to "you" until you make it a better cash offer.

H-1B is necessary because there is talent we simply cannot find enough
of in the US (such as analog design). Also transducer engineers and so
on.

Well, that is the oft-repeated claim. Every time I've scratched the
surface of "an engineer shortage" it appears to be a shortage of
engineers who like to work for peanuts while the apes at the top of the
tree or over in the bull-crap-polishing department take home millions.
"We can't find workers" is a sign of a very simple economic principle,
"you are not offering enough in money, benefits, working conditions
etc." to get workers. Rather than offer more, they want indentured
servants that cannot leave for a better offer - so, H1-B.

Still, I'd agree that it's not going away and also not going to be
fixed, based on my first point - it's the way it is because it was
bought and paid for, and suits the "people" that own it just fine.

 

[Joerg]

Ecnerwal wrote:

[...]

Well, that is the oft-repeated claim. Every time I've scratched the
surface of "an engineer shortage" it appears to be a shortage of
engineers who like to work for peanuts while the apes at the top of the
tree or over in the bull-crap-polishing department take home millions.
"We can't find workers" is a sign of a very simple economic principle,
"you are not offering enough in money, benefits, working conditions
etc." to get workers. Rather than offer more, they want indentured
servants that cannot leave for a better offer - so, H1-B.

I can attest to the contrary. We hired a small team of British engineers
at my last employer. Definitely folks you can either not find in the US
or have to pry out of the competition. Upon which the projects at the
competitor would have croaked. These people were paid top Dollar.

This and other such efforts have created countless well-paying jobs for
Americans, right here in California. Without H-1B the alternative would
have been very clear, we would have set up the whole place in the
Netherlands where we already had a subsidiary.

Still, I'd agree that it's not going away and also not going to be
fixed, based on my first point - it's the way it is because it was
bought and paid for, and suits the "people" that own it just fine.

As I outlined, fixing H-1B and preventing abuse is absolutely easy. But
nobody listens. Or nobody wants to listen.

 

[Mark]

yep, the problem with engineers, is they are too involved with doing
their job well to worry about being treated fairly..

there is a lot of truth in these jokes

google: ENGINEERS & GUILLOTINES

Mark

 

[rickman]

yep, the problem with engineers, is they are too involved with doing
their job well to worry about being treated fairly..

there is a lot of truth in these jokes

google: ENGINEERS& GUILLOTINES

Indeed. The difference between engineers and doctors is just a matter
of being organized. Doctors work together to improve their conditions
to the point that they manage their own profession to the exclusion of
even the government. Engineers think they need to be independent and as
a result end up a commodity. I believe the term for an engineer among
management is "tool".

That is why I gave up on a regular job and became a consultant. I don't
have clients beating a path to my door like Joerg, but I do very well at
times. This is one of them. I think I would have gone crazy if I was
still working 9 to 5.

 

[Joerg]

yep, the problem with engineers, is they are too involved with doing
their job well to worry about being treated fairly..

there is a lot of truth in these jokes

But not all is true. I have personally seen an H-1B engineer bail and
start working for a new employer in the US. Simple:

http://www.h1base.com/visa/work/Information Obligations for H1B Employers Sponsors/ref/1172/

"The new regulations permit the H1B employee to begin working for the
new employer upon the filing of the transfer H1B petition with the
USCIS. H1B applicants who currently have a transfer petition pending
with the USCIS can begin working for the new employer immediately".

That pretty much debunks the myth of indentured servitude.

[...]

 

[[email protected]]

Ecnerwal wrote:

[...]

Well, that is the oft-repeated claim. Every time I've scratched the
surface of "an engineer shortage" it appears to be a shortage of
engineers who like to work for peanuts while the apes at the top of the
tree or over in the bull-crap-polishing department take home millions.
"We can't find workers" is a sign of a very simple economic principle,
"you are not offering enough in money, benefits, working conditions
etc." to get workers. Rather than offer more, they want indentured
servants that cannot leave for a better offer - so, H1-B.

I can attest to the contrary. We hired a small team of British engineers
at my last employer. Definitely folks you can either not find in the US
or have to pry out of the competition. Upon which the projects at the
competitor would have croaked. These people were paid top Dollar.

This and other such efforts have created countless well-paying jobs for
Americans, right here in California. Without H-1B the alternative would
have been very clear, we would have set up the whole place in the
Netherlands where we already had a subsidiary.

Still, I'd agree that it's not going away and also not going to be
fixed, based on my first point - it's the way it is because it was
bought and paid for, and suits the "people" that own it just fine.

As I outlined, fixing H-1B and preventing abuse is absolutely easy. But
nobody listens. Or nobody wants to listen.

yep, "stealing" talent from other countries should be a good thing

making sure that it isn't just a way for companies to save on pay,
would be one of the good thing unions could do, but that is probably
a
swear word around here


-Lasse

 

[Joerg]

Ecnerwal wrote:

[...]

H-1B is necessary because there is talent we simply cannot find enough
of in the US (such as analog design). Also transducer engineers and so
on.
Well, that is the oft-repeated claim. Every time I've scratched the
surface of "an engineer shortage" it appears to be a shortage of
engineers who like to work for peanuts while the apes at the top of the
tree or over in the bull-crap-polishing department take home millions.
"We can't find workers" is a sign of a very simple economic principle,
"you are not offering enough in money, benefits, working conditions
etc." to get workers. Rather than offer more, they want indentured
servants that cannot leave for a better offer - so, H1-B.

I can attest to the contrary. We hired a small team of British engineers
at my last employer. Definitely folks you can either not find in the US
or have to pry out of the competition. Upon which the projects at the
competitor would have croaked. These people were paid top Dollar.

This and other such efforts have created countless well-paying jobs for
Americans, right here in California. Without H-1B the alternative would
have been very clear, we would have set up the whole place in the
Netherlands where we already had a subsidiary.

Still, I'd agree that it's not going away and also not going to be
fixed, based on my first point - it's the way it is because it was
bought and paid for, and suits the "people" that own it just fine.

As I outlined, fixing H-1B and preventing abuse is absolutely easy. But
nobody listens. Or nobody wants to listen.

yep, "stealing" talent from other countries should be a good thing

T'is good healthy competition, way it should be. In the US many people
lament such competition in the workplace, they do not see that it's the
same in other countries. When I worked in Germany all our bosses were
Americans and inside the building we generally spoke English. There was
never one bad word said about all those work visas. On the contrary, we
tried to help the folks settle in and feel at home in a country that was
foreign to them and far away from all their relatives.

Competition is the only way to really excel in business.

making sure that it isn't just a way for companies to save on pay,
would be one of the good thing unions could do, but that is probably
a
swear word around here

We don't need unions for that. This is already in the law but
unfortunately nobody really cares about it.

 

[[email protected]]

Ecnerwal wrote:
[...]
H-1B is necessary because there is talent we simply cannot find enough
of in the US (such as analog design). Also transducer engineers and so
on.
Well, that is the oft-repeated claim. Every time I've scratched the
surface of "an engineer shortage" it appears to be a shortage of
engineers who like to work for peanuts while the apes at the top of the
tree or over in the bull-crap-polishing department take home millions..
"We can't find workers" is a sign of a very simple economic principle,
"you are not offering enough in money, benefits, working conditions
etc." to get workers. Rather than offer more, they want indentured
servants that cannot leave for a better offer - so, H1-B.
I can attest to the contrary. We hired a small team of British engineers
at my last employer. Definitely folks you can either not find in the US
or have to pry out of the competition. Upon which the projects at the
competitor would have croaked. These people were paid top Dollar.
This and other such efforts have created countless well-paying jobs for
Americans, right here in California. Without H-1B the alternative would
have been very clear, we would have set up the whole place in the
Netherlands where we already had a subsidiary.
Still, I'd agree that it's not going away and also not going to be
fixed, based on my first point - it's the way it is because it was
bought and paid for, and suits the "people" that own it just fine.
As I outlined, fixing H-1B and preventing abuse is absolutely easy. But
nobody listens. Or nobody wants to listen.

yep, "stealing" talent from other countries should be a good thing

T'is good healthy competition, way it should be. In the US many people
lament such competition in the workplace, they do not see that it's the
same in other countries. When I worked in Germany all our bosses were
Americans and inside the building we generally spoke English. There was
never one bad word said about all those work visas. On the contrary, we
tried to help the folks settle in and feel at home in a country that was
foreign to them and far away from all their relatives.

Competition is the only way to really excel in business.

Here there's an option to only pay half tax for the first five years
for foreign "highly paid employees and researchers",
they have to be approved and paid more than ~12K$ a month

We don't need unions for that. This is already in the law but
unfortunately nobody really cares about it.

sure you don't need them, but they are the ones that should care
probably they only ones with the resources

-Lasse

 

[Joerg]

Ecnerwal wrote:
[...]
H-1B is necessary because there is talent we simply cannot find enough
of in the US (such as analog design). Also transducer engineers and so
on.
Well, that is the oft-repeated claim. Every time I've scratched the
surface of "an engineer shortage" it appears to be a shortage of
engineers who like to work for peanuts while the apes at the top of the
tree or over in the bull-crap-polishing department take home millions.
"We can't find workers" is a sign of a very simple economic principle,
"you are not offering enough in money, benefits, working conditions
etc." to get workers. Rather than offer more, they want indentured
servants that cannot leave for a better offer - so, H1-B.
I can attest to the contrary. We hired a small team of British engineers
at my last employer. Definitely folks you can either not find in the US
or have to pry out of the competition. Upon which the projects at the
competitor would have croaked. These people were paid top Dollar.
This and other such efforts have created countless well-paying jobs for
Americans, right here in California. Without H-1B the alternative would
have been very clear, we would have set up the whole place in the
Netherlands where we already had a subsidiary.
Still, I'd agree that it's not going away and also not going to be
fixed, based on my first point - it's the way it is because it was
bought and paid for, and suits the "people" that own it just fine.
As I outlined, fixing H-1B and preventing abuse is absolutely easy. But
nobody listens. Or nobody wants to listen.
yep, "stealing" talent from other countries should be a good thing

T'is good healthy competition, way it should be. In the US many people
lament such competition in the workplace, they do not see that it's the
same in other countries. When I worked in Germany all our bosses were
Americans and inside the building we generally spoke English. There was
never one bad word said about all those work visas. On the contrary, we
tried to help the folks settle in and feel at home in a country that was
foreign to them and far away from all their relatives.

Competition is the only way to really excel in business.

Here there's an option to only pay half tax for the first five years
for foreign "highly paid employees and researchers",
they have to be approved and paid more than ~12K$ a month

That's one of the things I've often advocated. Set the minimum salary
really high for H-1B. If companies are not willing to pay that then
obviously they do not need the engineers all that urgently.

sure you don't need them, but they are the ones that should care
probably they only ones with the resources

What resources? Propaganda material?

 

[[email protected]]

[email protected] wrote:
Ecnerwal wrote:
[...]
H-1B is necessary because there is talent we simply cannot find enough
of in the US (such as analog design). Also transducer engineers and so
on.
Well, that is the oft-repeated claim. Every time I've scratched the
surface of "an engineer shortage" it appears to be a shortage of
engineers who like to work for peanuts while the apes at the top ofthe
tree or over in the bull-crap-polishing department take home millions.
"We can't find workers" is a sign of a very simple economic principle,
"you are not offering enough in money, benefits, working conditions
etc." to get workers. Rather than offer more, they want indentured
servants that cannot leave for a better offer - so, H1-B.
I can attest to the contrary. We hired a small team of British engineers
at my last employer. Definitely folks you can either not find in theUS
or have to pry out of the competition. Upon which the projects at the
competitor would have croaked. These people were paid top Dollar.
This and other such efforts have created countless well-paying jobs for
Americans, right here in California. Without H-1B the alternative would
have been very clear, we would have set up the whole place in the
Netherlands where we already had a subsidiary.
Still, I'd agree that it's not going away and also not going to be
fixed, based on my first point - it's the way it is because it was
bought and paid for, and suits the "people" that own it just fine.
As I outlined, fixing H-1B and preventing abuse is absolutely easy. But
nobody listens. Or nobody wants to listen.
yep, "stealing" talent from other countries should be a good thing
T'is good healthy competition, way it should be. In the US many people
lament such competition in the workplace, they do not see that it's the
same in other countries. When I worked in Germany all our bosses were
Americans and inside the building we generally spoke English. There was
never one bad word said about all those work visas. On the contrary, we
tried to help the folks settle in and feel at home in a country that was
foreign to them and far away from all their relatives.
Competition is the only way to really excel in business.

Here there's an option to only pay half tax for the first five years
for foreign "highly paid employees and researchers",
they have to be approved and paid more than ~12K$ a month

That's one of the things I've often advocated. Set the minimum salary
really high for H-1B. If companies are not willing to pay that then
obviously they do not need the engineers all that urgently.

sure you don't need them, but they are the ones that should care
probably they only ones with the resources

What resources? Propaganda material?

you could call it that

The big companies have a bunch of highly paid lobbyist pulling in one
direction, if the other side doesn't have something similar they have
no chance

-Lasse