Good freeware circuit drawing program

[Michael Brown]

Those who advocate for EAGLE (properly written in all caps),
http://www.google.com/search?q=Easily.Applicable.Graphical.Layout.Editor
should also mention its DRM, implemented in recent versions,
which CAN LOCK YOU OUT OF YOUR WORK PRODUCT.
http://groups.google.com/group/comp...less+*-*-*-projects-could-no-longer-be-opened
news:[email protected]

I tried this just now (since I use the free EAGLE for small personal boards;
saves spending ages hacking around footprints in gEDA), and they seem to
have dropped this approach, at least to some degree. I'm currently using
5.2.0, and a bit of Googling netted me 4.16R2 plus a keygen. The generated
key appeared to work fine in 4.16R2 (no longer dimensionally limited in the
PCB editor), but schematics/boards generated by this version *worked fine*
when loaded into 5.2.0. To check to make sure I wasn't doing anything silly,
I hunted down EAGLE 4.11e plus a keygen, and the schematics from this
version were flagged by 4.16R2 but *not* 5.2.0.

So it looks like they might have backpedalled on this issue. Or I may just
have got lucky. I wouldn't recommend on relying on this behaviour though.

I'm actually in the process of buying the standard version for work, so this
is actually quite useful information. I'll try and get an proper statment
out of them about whether this is still the case or not. If they still do it
(or if they won't give an answer), I'm definately backing out of the order -
if it stuffs up any of the layouts, I'm the one who'll cop the flak for
recommending it. Much safer to go with gEDA, which worst case just makes
things take a little longer.

[...]

What Cadsoft's app *does* have is forward- and backward-annotation,
which is handy if you want to make PCBs.

Yup, this is the one thing I miss in gEDA and the like. I don't really use
the backward annotation that much (and could do without it), but the forward
annotation makes revision cycles shorter. Not to mention that it's a lot
easier to get gEDA/PCB out of sync than EAGLE.

I don't know how EAGLE would fare on a bigger project, since I've only got
the free version. However, I suspect that limitations in the PCB side
(length matching is difficult, differential pairs even more so, for example)
would bite before the layout editor would.

 

[JeffM]

Those who advocate for EAGLE[...]
should also mention its DRM, implemented in recent versions,
which CAN LOCK YOU OUT OF YOUR WORK PRODUCT.
http://groups.google.com/group/comp...less+*-*-*-projects-could-no-longer-be-opened

[...]they seem to have dropped this approach, at least to some degree.

You misunderstand the issue.
*The things you tried* DID NOT trigger the DRM.

I'm currently using 5.2.0,
and a bit of Googling netted me 4.16R2 plus a keygen.
[...]schematics/boards generated by this version
*worked fine* when loaded into 5.2.0.

Using a keygen will produce a new valid-looking key each time it is
used.
The DRM mechanism that Cadsoft uses
relies on a *database* of illicit keys known by them to be in the
wild.
**Re-using in your design, a component which was created
by someone using one of those illicit numbers**
triggers the LOCKS YOU OUT OF YOUR WORK PRODUCT issue
where *one* tainted object in the file locks the WHOLE file.

To check to make sure I wasn't doing anything silly,
I hunted down EAGLE 4.11e plus a keygen,
and the schematics from this version were flagged by 4.16R2
but *not* 5.2.0.

So it looks like they might have backpedalled on this issue.

*You* using a keygen didn't get at the heart of the issue.

The problem arises when you innocently re-use a library part
that was created by *someone else*, known by Cadsoft to be a pirate
**and the item isn't flagged by the software RIGHT THEN as illicit.**

It's the *guilt by association* thing that is infuriating.

 

[Jim Yanik]

...dirt and sharp stick is modern. I started with chisel and stone
;-)

...Jim Thompson

Uh,I think dirt/sharp stick came before chisel/stone.

 

[Joerg]

You could try Tina (www.tina.com), which is also available as a freeware
version from Texas Instruments (www.ti.com). It is mostly for simulation,
but they have a PCB layout package that integrates with it (at a fairly
reasonable cost). I bought a low end version of their simulator software,
and I tried their demo version for PCBs, but I do my serious work with
PADS.

Another option is to use IMSI TurboCAD (www.imsisoft.com), which has a
fairly complete set of schematic symbols. They have a 30 day free demo that
(I think) just comes up with a nag screen after the trial period, but you
can also purchase earlier versions on eBay for about $20 or so. It is also
very useful for any mechanical drawings you might want to make, and it has
amazing 3-D capabilities. It can save drawings in various formats, such as
JPG, that are useful for slides and PowerPoint presentations, and you can
make extensive use of color and line widths and styles which are useful for
showing multiple signal paths and other things that a full graphical
display can greatly enhance.

Same with DesignCAD-3D. Has lots of schematic symbols but so far I only
used it for mechanical stuff. I bought an older version from one of the
liquidator stores for ten bucks (!). I thought this would backfire at me
during vendor registration but lo and behold they emailed me the 2nd
part of the license key within less than one minute.

BTW, JPEG is definitely not a proper format for schematics. Use a vector
graphics format if you can, or at least PNG.

 

[sert]

Any suggestions?

The suggestions are very good so far, but I'm looking for
something to create circuits to be printed, with support to
write equations on the circuits and have some way to keep track
of the size of everything so it doesn't appear stretched out.

I can't for the life of me find a good solution. How the hell do
electronics and electrical engineering books get written?

 

[mpm]

The suggestions are very good so far, but I'm looking for
something to create circuits to be printed, with support to
write equations on the circuits and have some way to keep track
of the size of everything so it doesn't appear stretched out.

I can't for the life of me find a good solution. How the hell do
electronics and electrical engineering books get written?

Microsoft Word... (I know, just hear me out!)..
has a drawing toolbar and there are many add-ons you can purchase.
Marry MS Word up with Microsoft Equations 3.0 and you've got a pretty
powerful authoring too.
Albeit, one that you have to take some time to learn and become
familiar with.

You'll have to dig for Equations 3.0 (might even be a higher rev by
now?)
It used to be on the original Word (Office) install disks, but would
only install if you selected the right options on initial install
(buried pretty deeply, as I recall). I presume you can go back and
just load Equations, but I can't swear to it.

 

[Joerg]

Easy (done it myself): Draw schematic in whatever CAD program you want,
export as graphics file. Load graphics file into MS-Word or whatever
your favorite app is, format to your liking. Some text programs let you
write over the imported graphics. If not you can do that with MS-Paint,
that's what I use most of the time because it's easy.

Microsoft Word... (I know, just hear me out!)..
has a drawing toolbar and there are many add-ons you can purchase.
Marry MS Word up with Microsoft Equations 3.0 and you've got a pretty
powerful authoring too.
Albeit, one that you have to take some time to learn and become
familiar with.

You'll have to dig for Equations 3.0 (might even be a higher rev by
now?)
It used to be on the original Word (Office) install disks, but would
only install if you selected the right options on initial install
(buried pretty deeply, as I recall). I presume you can go back and
just load Equations, but I can't swear to it.

It has those under Insert -> Symbol. In OpenOffice that would be Insert
-> Special Character.

 

[Nico Coesel]

The suggestions are very good so far, but I'm looking for
something to create circuits to be printed, with support to
write equations on the circuits and have some way to keep track
of the size of everything so it doesn't appear stretched out.

I can't for the life of me find a good solution. How the hell do
electronics and electrical engineering books get written?

How about Microsoft Visio? It has most of the basic symbols (which can
probably be extended). If it must look neat, then you'll need a
desktop publishing-like solution.

 

[JeffM]

How about Microsoft Visio?

Visio sucks for anything with wires.
http://groups.google.com/group/sci....ections+for-this-*-reason+no.concept.of.wires

If it must look neat, then you'll need a desktop publishing-like solution.

Others have mentioned importing standard graphic formats
into word processors.
Those don't hold formatting of pages faithfully
from computer to computer.

The gold standard for page layout is:
http://www.google.com/search?&q=TeX+publishing&num=100

 

[krw]

You could try Tina (www.tina.com), which is also available as a freeware
version from Texas Instruments (www.ti.com). It is mostly for simulation,
but they have a PCB layout package that integrates with it (at a fairly
reasonable cost). I bought a low end version of their simulator software,
and I tried their demo version for PCBs, but I do my serious work with
PADS.

The TI version if Tina is quite crippled (no Spice imports). I'm
debating whether to buy one of the for-sale versions or go with 5-
Spice. PSpice is out of the question ($9K plus maintenance is
nuts). I don't need it for schematic capture, though simple model
entry is certainly goodness (though I have entered netlists by hand,
*many* moons have passed).

<snip>

 

[Jasen Betts]

The suggestions are very good so far, but I'm looking for
something to create circuits to be printed, with support to
write equations on the circuits and have some way to keep track
of the size of everything so it doesn't appear stretched out.

"to be printed in a book" mean you need vector graphics (or pixel
graphics to some ridiculous resolution like 7200dpi - don't gp there)
something like inkscape may be a good start. (it's part of open office)

I can't for the life of me find a good solution. How the hell do
electronics and electrical engineering books get written?

Hmm, I've not heard from Winfield Hill in a while, he'd know, although
technology marches on.

I've seen some books with hand-drawn diagrams too.

Bye.
Jasen

 

[Paul E. Schoen]

"to be printed in a book" mean you need vector graphics (or pixel
graphics to some ridiculous resolution like 7200dpi - don't gp there)
something like inkscape may be a good start. (it's part of open office)


Hmm, I've not heard from Winfield Hill in a while, he'd know, although
technology marches on.

I've seen some books with hand-drawn diagrams too.

Sounds like what Robert Pease does in his articles. And I think Forrest
Mims as well. Sometimes a hand-drawn schematic can be effective, as you can
emphasize important areas by making different size symbols and using
thicker lines and other techniques.

Paul

 

[Nico Coesel]

Visio sucks for anything with wires.
http://groups.google.com/group/sci....ections+for-this-*-reason+no.concept.of.wires

The solution is simple: don't use Viso's 'connector wires' but draw
lines by yourself which is about the same amount of work BTW. There is
no such thing as an ideal piece of software, but for quick and dirty
artwork every once in a while, Visio is one of THE tools to use.

 

[JeffM]

The solution is simple: don't use Viso's 'connector wires'

The version I used didn't have that anyway.

but draw lines by yourself which is about the same amount of work BTW.

The way Visio treated "lines" of any type was crap.
It's as if the guys who wrote the program
had never actually used a drawing app.

There is no such thing as an ideal piece of software,
but for quick and dirty artwork every once in a while,
Visio is one of THE tools to use.

I see no reason to give money to Micros~1.
There are general-purpose cross-platform Open Source
vector-based drawing apps available for free:
http://www.google.com/search?q=Dia+Inkscape+Visio+-intitle:Visio&num=100

 

[Rich Grise]

The version I used didn't have that anyway.

The way Visio treated "lines" of any type was crap. It's as if the guys
who wrote the program had never actually used a drawing app.

I see no reason to give money to Micros~1. There are general-purpose
cross-platform Open Source vector-based drawing apps available for free:
http://www.google.com/search?q=Dia+Inkscape+Visio+-intitle:Visio&num=100

It seems these folks ahave a version of Kivio that can run on windoze,
but it's not free. The Linux/KDE version came packaged with my Slack
distro.
http://www.thekompany.com/projects/kivio/

Cheers!
Rich

 

[JeffM]

It seems these folks ahave a version of Kivio that can run on windoze,
but it's not free.
The Linux/KDE version came packaged with my Slack distro.
http://www.thekompany.com/projects/kivio/

That's similar to QCAD where the Free Software version is gratis
but to pay for the license for the tools for the Windoze build,
you have to pony up some cash. (Search for "$28".)
http://www.google.com/search?q=cach....for.the.books+QCad+I-avoided-*-*-*-3D-*+LGPL

 

[Nico Coesel]

The version I used didn't have that anyway.

It had too because you said you had to put an interconnect point
somewhere in the middle.

The way Visio treated "lines" of any type was crap.
It's as if the guys who wrote the program
had never actually used a drawing app.

Depends on your background. Before I downgraded to WP and further
downgraded to Word I used DTP software to write essays and other
documentation. The way Visio works is much like the drawing tools of a
DTP application.