GE Simon 3 and GSM monitoring

[Tom Metro]

I'm looking for an alarm system for a remote vacation home. I'm trying
to find something that is relatively inexpensive, but still a "pro
grade" system so that it'll have fairly good reliability, operating
temperature range (the building will be unheated), and a decent
selection of sensors.

The other requirement is cell connectivity. It seems like this is a
must-have for a remote location, even if you have a land-line. While
cell connectivity seems to be growing in popularity, I'm wondering how
traditional systems guarded against the line being cut? I seem to recall
that local phone companies once offered a service where they could
monitor for line cuts, but I haven't seen that advertised in a long
time. I suppose an alarm monitoring company could get a dry pair
installed to the house and do their own cut line monitoring, but that
would be expensive, and if it once was common, it doesn't seem to be today.

So given this, I started looking at the GE Simon product line, which has
a GSM module available and a good selection of reasonably priced
sensors. I like the Simon XT panel best, but found a much better deal
for a Simon 3 when including the radio cost:

Simon XT $90 + GSM $213 = $303
Simon 3 $70 + GSM $43 = $113

Then further research turned up that these GSM modules are really GPRS
data transceivers that are designed specifically to work with the
alarm.com monitoring service, and are useless without that service.

Aside from the fact that the alarm.com monitoring service costs 2 to 3
times ($20 - $40) what a basic monitoring service costs ($10 - $20), I
was hoping to keep my options open to permit self-monitoring, which
would require the ability to use the GSM radio to contact me directly
(SMS, email, or voice).

That seems to suggest that my only option is one of the generic GSM
boxes that simulate a dialtone for the alarm panel. I see RISCO Group
makes one that can be had for about $235 and will work with a pre-paid
cell service.

This ends up being more expensive than the Simon 3 solution, and gives
up the remote control capabilities provided by the GPRS/alarm.com
approach. Though I suppose most panels provide some remote control
capability over the phone.

Are there any alarm panels on the market that offer integrated GSM like
the GE Simon line, where you get both GPRS for the monitoring company
and voice GSM for self-monitoring applications?

RISCO Group offers a version of their GSM box that integrates with their
WisDom panel, supposedly making use of GPRS, but some have suggested
that this version then precludes using it as a GSM voice notifier.
(Also, I did a price comparison of the panel + peripherals and came to
about $1000 for the WisDom, which seems less widely sold, compared to
$500 ~ $700 for the GE Simon.)

Lastly, I've seen mixed indicators as to whether the Simon 3 supports
direct voice notification of alarm conditions via telephone. Some
sources say it doesn't. Some say you need the optional DTIM dialer
(normally used with the Allegro). And yet some of the GE documentation
indicates that it has built-in voice notification and the ability to
accept at least one user-defined number.

The Simon 3 I'd be purchasing would be "unlocked." Perhaps what I'm
seeing is more a reflection of the restricted way most alarm companies
configure these for their customers?

I'm also considering the GE Allegro, but I can't find the Allegro panel
priced as aggressively as the Simon line. Few places carry it. It runs
about $127 for the panel and DTIM. Bundled with peripherals (including a
generic GSM radio) it works out to be about $25 less than a Simon XT
bundle that includes a $60 remote keypad, and almost $100 more than a
Simon 3 bundle using the GPRS radio.

-Tom

 

[Bob La Londe]

Wow! You make a lot of assumptions.

Go back and look at everything you looked at before and do not assume any
panel has anything it doesn't specifically say it has.

 

[Tom Metro]

Wow! You make a lot of assumptions.

Could you be more specific?

The point to the post is to get some of those assumptions confirmed or
refuted.

Go back and look at everything you looked at before and do not assume
any panel has anything it doesn't specifically say it has.

But that's just it: The information is inconsistent. I have cases of the
manufacturer's literature saying that a panel has a capability that
other sources say it doesn't, as well as the reverse.

GE publishes both user guides and installer guides, and I don't have
access to the installer guides. The user guides are written assuming the
panels are being installed by an alarm company that is restricting
access to some of the features, so I can't rely on such a guide as a
definitive source of what the panel can do.

-Tom

 

[Jim]

I'm looking for an alarm system for a remote vacation home. I'm trying
to find something that is relatively inexpensive, but still a "pro
grade" system so that it'll have fairly good reliability, operating
temperature range (the building will be unheated), and a decent
selection of sensors.

The other requirement is cell connectivity. It seems like this is a
must-have for a remote location, even if you have a land-line. While
cell connectivity seems to be growing in popularity, I'm wondering how
traditional systems guarded against the line being cut? I seem to recall
that local phone companies once offered a service where they could
monitor for line cuts, but I haven't seen that advertised in a long
time. I suppose an alarm monitoring company could get a dry pair
installed to the house and do their own cut line monitoring, but that
would be expensive, and if it once was common, it doesn't seem to be today.

So given this, I started looking at the GE Simon product line, which has
a GSM module available and a good selection of reasonably priced
sensors. I like the Simon XT panel best, but found a much better deal
for a Simon 3 when including the radio cost:

Simon XT $90 + GSM $213 = $303
Simon 3 �$70 + GSM �$43 = $113

Then further research turned up that these GSM modules are really GPRS
data transceivers that are designed specifically to work with the
alarm.com monitoring service, and are useless without that service.

Aside from the fact that the alarm.com monitoring service costs 2 to 3
times ($20 - $40) what a basic monitoring service costs ($10 - $20), I
was hoping to keep my options open to permit self-monitoring, which
would require the ability to use the GSM radio to contact me directly
(SMS, email, or voice).

That seems to suggest that my only option is one of the generic GSM
boxes that simulate a dialtone for the alarm panel. I see RISCO Group
makes one that can be had for about $235 and will work with a pre-paid
cell service.

This ends up being more expensive than the Simon 3 solution, and gives
up the remote control capabilities provided by the GPRS/alarm.com
approach. Though I suppose most panels provide some remote control
capability over the phone.

Are there any alarm panels on the market that offer integrated GSM like
the GE Simon line, where you get both GPRS for the monitoring company
and voice GSM for self-monitoring applications?

RISCO Group offers a version of their GSM box that integrates with their
WisDom panel, supposedly making use of GPRS, but some have suggested
that this version then precludes using it as a GSM voice notifier.
(Also, I did a price comparison of the panel + peripherals and came to
about $1000 for the WisDom, which seems less widely sold, compared to
$500 ~ $700 for the GE Simon.)

Lastly, I've seen mixed indicators as to whether the Simon 3 supports
direct voice notification of alarm conditions via telephone. Some
sources say it doesn't. Some say you need the optional DTIM dialer
(normally used with the Allegro). And yet some of the GE documentation
indicates that it has built-in voice notification and the ability to
accept at least one user-defined number.

The Simon 3 I'd be purchasing would be "unlocked." Perhaps what I'm
seeing is more a reflection of the restricted way most alarm companies
configure these for their customers?

I'm also considering the GE Allegro, but I can't find the Allegro panel
priced as aggressively as the Simon line. Few places carry it. It runs
about $127 for the panel and DTIM. Bundled with peripherals (including a
generic GSM radio) it works out to be about $25 less than a Simon XT
bundle that includes a $60 remote keypad, and almost $100 more than a
Simon 3 bundle using the GPRS radio.

� -Tom

Tom, you're not going to find too many really professional installers
who will use this kind of equipment. You're also likely to not get
anyone to nickle and dime the cost of parts either. Most professionals
with pick a product line and pretty much stick with it in their
installations. The type of equipment you're talking about is more in
line with the "lick and stick" alarm companys. Their goal is to get in
and out of the installation as quickly as possible. Security,
reliability, protection are not their primary objective. It's how many
installs they can do in a day. How small they can keep the
installation ( because they make as much money per month on a small
installation as they do on a more compicated one.) They are in the
recurring income business not the security busines That's why these
panels exist. You're trying to join a cheap and uncomplicated panel
with a back up system, which is not what usually happens. Usually the
people who want/need backup reporting also want and can afford the
more professional panels, not the low end, "all in one" panels. Oh,
and something else, I think you said you wanted the cellular back up
to send your cell phone a message ( I think I remember reading that)
That's not the way it works. Cellular or radio back up goes through a
company who controls the network and directs signals to centrals
station that get charged for the service and who, in turn charge the
installing company for the service. I don't recall anyone offering
Cellular or radio back up, direct to end users or cellular direct to a
cell phone. But, who knows, I could be wrong. Today you can find
almost anything.

Again, most professional installers are not going to set their
customers up to monitor their own system on an unreliable cell phone.
We're talking about life and death and the value of your home and
family. We're called in to professionally help people who are concered
about REAL safety. They're usually not nickel and diming half baked
self contained panels.

But what ever the installation is, once protecting all of these
important items, having it dependent upon you forgetting your cell
phone or being out of range or whatever else might happen to a self
monitored system, is not a option that a professional would be
interested in promoting to his client. We're talking about the surest
and least likely to fail way to protect all the imprortant things in a
persons life.

All in one, lick and stick, nickel and dime, self monitored systems
are not in the picture. YMMV

 

[Tom Metro]

Tom, you're not going to find too many really professional installers
who will use this kind of equipment. ... The type of equipment you're
talking about is more in line with the "lick and stick" alarm
companys. Their goal is to get in and out of the installation as
quickly as possible.

Sure, I can see that. Even the literature from the manufacturers' of
these wireless systems boast to installers about the greater quantity of
systems they'll be able to install per week.

Usually the people who want/need backup reporting also want and can
afford the more professional panels, not the low end, "all in one"
panels.

OK, but as with most industries I'm sure high-end features flow to the
low-end of the product line over time. With the feature set of products
these days being so dependent on software, plus the usual cost reduction
of electronics, it seems reasonable to think that things like integrated
GMS/GPRS receivers will become common on all-in-one panels.

So if you don't recommend these "lick and stick" class systems, are
there a few make/model panels you can recommend? Are there any wireless
ones? I'd prefer to use a hardwired system, but I just don't have the
time to do the installation in this case. I also would need something
that can be purchased by a non-professional.

For this modest system with 2 doors, 3 PIRs, and 3 smoke detectors, I've
budgeted about $400. To which I might add $75 for a remote keypad, and
$250 for GSM backup. I'd be willing to pay a premium over that for
better quality, but if a pro-grade system is going to cost over $1000
just for the basic panel and sensors, then I wouldn't get enough value
out of it to justify it.

...I think you said you wanted the cellular back
up to send your cell phone a message...
Yes.


That's not the way it works. Cellular or radio back up goes through a
company who controls the network and directs signals to centrals
station that get charged for the service and who, in turn charge the
installing company for the service.

Yes, I noted that. I learned that alarm.com is used for the GE Simon alarms.

I don't recall anyone offering Cellular or radio back up, direct to
end users or cellular direct to a cell phone.

Yes, I mentioned in my post that RISCO Group does, and I've seen others
as well. They basically provide a dialtone for the alarm panel, and the
phone wiring loops through the GSM box, so normally notifications go out
via land-line when it is available.

Again, most professional installers are not going to set their
customers up to monitor their own system on an unreliable cell phone.
We're talking about life and death and the value of your home...

Sure, but security isn't that black-and-white. There is a continuous
spectrum when it comes to the level of risk. Compared to having no alarm
system, having one that is being self-monitored is an improvement.

The objective is to design a system that can scale up or down as the
budget dictates, while still providing utility. A system designed only
for commercial monitoring becomes a costly doorstop if you decide the
monitoring service is too costly.

-Tom

 

[mleuck]

I'm looking for an alarm system for a remote vacation home. I'm trying
to find something that is relatively inexpensive, but still a "pro
grade" system so that it'll have fairly good reliability, operating
temperature range (the building will be unheated), and a decent
selection of sensors.

The other requirement is cell connectivity. It seems like this is a
must-have for a remote location, even if you have a land-line. While
cell connectivity seems to be growing in popularity, I'm wondering how
traditional systems guarded against the line being cut? I seem to recall
that local phone companies once offered a service where they could
monitor for line cuts, but I haven't seen that advertised in a long
time. I suppose an alarm monitoring company could get a dry pair
installed to the house and do their own cut line monitoring, but that
would be expensive, and if it once was common, it doesn't seem to be today.

So given this, I started looking at the GE Simon product line, which has
a GSM module available and a good selection of reasonably priced
sensors. I like the Simon XT panel best, but found a much better deal
for a Simon 3 when including the radio cost:

Simon XT $90 + GSM $213 = $303
Simon 3  $70 + GSM  $43 = $113

Then further research turned up that these GSM modules are really GPRS
data transceivers that are designed specifically to work with the
alarm.com monitoring service, and are useless without that service.

Aside from the fact that the alarm.com monitoring service costs 2 to 3
times ($20 - $40) what a basic monitoring service costs ($10 - $20), I
was hoping to keep my options open to permit self-monitoring, which
would require the ability to use the GSM radio to contact me directly
(SMS, email, or voice).

That seems to suggest that my only option is one of the generic GSM
boxes that simulate a dialtone for the alarm panel. I see RISCO Group
makes one that can be had for about $235 and will work with a pre-paid
cell service.

This ends up being more expensive than the Simon 3 solution, and gives
up the remote control capabilities provided by the GPRS/alarm.com
approach. Though I suppose most panels provide some remote control
capability over the phone.

Are there any alarm panels on the market that offer integrated GSM like
the GE Simon line, where you get both GPRS for the monitoring company
and voice GSM for self-monitoring applications?

RISCO Group offers a version of their GSM box that integrates with their
WisDom panel, supposedly making use of GPRS, but some have suggested
that this version then precludes using it as a GSM voice notifier.
(Also, I did a price comparison of the panel + peripherals and came to
about $1000 for the WisDom, which seems less widely sold, compared to
$500 ~ $700 for the GE Simon.)

Lastly, I've seen mixed indicators as to whether the Simon 3 supports
direct voice notification of alarm conditions via telephone. Some
sources say it doesn't. Some say you need the optional DTIM dialer
(normally used with the Allegro). And yet some of the GE documentation
indicates that it has built-in voice notification and the ability to
accept at least one user-defined number.

The Simon 3 I'd be purchasing would be "unlocked." Perhaps what I'm
seeing is more a reflection of the restricted way most alarm companies
configure these for their customers?

I'm also considering the GE Allegro, but I can't find the Allegro panel
priced as aggressively as the Simon line. Few places carry it. It runs
about $127 for the panel and DTIM. Bundled with peripherals (including a
generic GSM radio) it works out to be about $25 less than a Simon XT
bundle that includes a $60 remote keypad, and almost $100 more than a
Simon 3 bundle using the GPRS radio.

  -Tom

Don't do the Allegro or Simon XT, use a Simon 3 with an Alarm.com cell
unit which allows remote control

 

[Tom Metro]

Don't do the Allegro or Simon XT, use a Simon 3 with an Alarm.com cell
unit which allows remote control

I haven't see any mention of a cell interface for the Allegro, but there
is one available (for about $200) for the Simon XT that supposedly works
with Alarm.com.

The quandary I'm dealing with is that the Simon 3 has an inexpensive
cell adapter available ($43), but Simon XT seems to be a much nicer
panel (LCD display, full keypad, named zones), and I may end up using
Internet monitoring instead of cell. (I need a to pay for a net
connection to support security cameras anyway, and the Internet
monitoring is a bit less expensive than Alarm.com for nearly the same
functionality.)

If I'm not going to use the cell option, I'll probably opt for the Simon
XT. Either that or the Abbra Professional bundle with NextAlarm.com
monitoring service sold through home-technology-store.com. Though all
the Abbra (Visonic) accessories are more expensive than the GE
equivalents, and I have no reason to believe they're any better.

-Tom