Free Muni or other hotspot access from a sailboat??

[Skip Gundlach]

So, the world is migrating to free internet access. Even the NYTimes,
today, has an article on the subject, saying, in effect, "It's not coming,
it's here!" (The first paragraph, in part: "No fewer than 300 cities and
towns around the nation have taken wireless Internet access, or Wi-Fi, to
the people. San Francisco's aim is to make the entire city a hot spot,
Chicago plans to blanket the city with access, and large parts of
Philadelphia are to go wireless soon.")
(http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/06/opinion/06tue3.html?th&emc=th)

Many airports, umpteen hotels, and countless other sources intentionally
offer their bandwidth freely. So, please spare me the moralizations and
legal citations about stealing someone's signal as we address the following
technical challenge:

I'll be on a boat full time. I'll be in range, more or less, of lots of
freely available access - such as San Francisco Bay, for example. I want to
be able to sit in the cabin (less signal due to fiberglass, mast, rigging,
etc.) or on deck, and access *WITHOUT WIRES* the available signal(s) on my
laptop.

Where I am now, there are very marginal signals available from several free
sites. There are also stronger signals available from several subscription
sites. So, I need either my external antenna's configuration utility, or my
internal Windoze Zero Configuration utility to be able to specify to which
of the access points I wish to associate my computer. Because I'll be in
differing locales, I'll not know the SSID or MAC addresses in advance.
Likewise, because I have no control over what's used, I have no assurance
that what I have installed will be the same manufacturer's in the AP. So,
requirements that I have the same mfr. gear, or specify SSID or MAC are out.
Likewise, as subscription sites are likely to have more powerful stations,
or just where I am at the time might have such differences, just having the
gear associate with the strongest signal won't get it either.

Previous attempts to find something I could put up the mast, with some minor
amplification to enable returning the signal, and about an 8.5dBi omni
antenna to hear the signal (omni because at anchor one never knows the
direction we'll face, and it changes all the time, and 8.5 because it's
strong enough without having a totally narrow pattern which would limit what
it saw) have failed miserably.

However, I'm reasonably sure that's just because I haven't looked in the
right places. I have a relatively unlimited amount of 12V available to
power this setup, whether POE or directly wired. If it doesn't come that
way, I can put whatever it is in a NEMA waterproof enclosure, keeping it
safe, with the antenna N-mounted to the box or the mast, putting all that
very high up, assuring good range.

So, who knows what I need to accomplish this? Recall that I want to be able
to have my laptop see the shoreside point, through whatever is up the mast,
and be able to communicate with it, in the same fashion as I'd do if I were
in immediate laptop range. Intermediate steps (such as seeing the SSIDs and
manually entering the one I want after selection from what's available) are
acceptable, but definitely not preferred over WZC or the like's point and
click.

I've entertained, but had defective/faulty/somehow not work
ethernet-connected bridges with the same omni 8.5dBi antenna setup associate
but fail to actually pass data, to a station known good as I can (like now)
communicate over it with my USB external antenna. As both of the Senao
2611CB3 Deluxe units I had behaved in that fashion, I assume this is another
case of manufacturer specific or other limiting circumstances, as I (gasp!)
about wore out the owner's manual, and did every possible change, one at a
time, with no success (other than association and the same signal and link
ratios as found on my USB antenna). So, I've given up on those.

Is there a plug-and-play solution to this technical challenge? Anybody done
the equivalent (something free-standing, some distance away from your
laptop, and a very long distance from the selectable AP you're using)?

Thanks for the assistance. We're getting ready to leave, permanently, and
would surely like to be able to access all the free APs now arising.

--
L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
http://tinyurl.com/p7rb4 - NOTE:new URL! The vessel as Tehamana, as we
bought her

"Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so
much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in
boats-or *with* boats.
In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's
the charm of it.
Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your
destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get
anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in
particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and
you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."

 

[Larry]

Many airports, umpteen hotels, and countless other sources
intentionally offer their bandwidth freely. So, please spare me the
moralizations and legal citations about stealing someone's signal as
we address the following technical challenge:

I'll be on a boat full time. I'll be in range, more or less, of lots
of freely available access - such as San Francisco Bay, for example.
I want to be able to sit in the cabin (less signal due to fiberglass,
mast, rigging, etc.) or on deck, and access *WITHOUT WIRES* the
available signal(s) on my laptop.

Download Net Stumbler from:
http://www.stumbler.net
It's free and great fun.

Just boot it and it goes to work as a sort of Wifi scanner, scanning the
channels the broadcasts from the routers are on and logging them in a
neat and orderly fashion, noting which ones are open or WEP secured or
locked up with newer technology. Armed with the SSIDs of the open
routers around you, it's simple to simply connect WindozeXP to some
unsuspecting klutz's unsecured router and get your emails or whatever
while you're in range.

My neighbor is on Comcrap and I'm on Knology. We both have Wifi up and
running, so now when one of the systems craps out, we simply logon to the
other's router over the Wifi link and carry on as usual...(c;

If you plug your GPS into the computer, it also logs the lat/long and
interfaces with mapping programs on the net! Cool stuff....(c;

 

[James Douglas]

So, the world is migrating to free internet access. Even the NYTimes,
today, has an article on the subject, saying, in effect, "It's not coming,
it's here!" (The first paragraph, in part: "No fewer than 300 cities and
towns around the nation have taken wireless Internet access, or Wi-Fi, to
the people. San Francisco's aim is to make the entire city a hot spot,
Chicago plans to blanket the city with access, and large parts of
Philadelphia are to go wireless soon.")
(http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/06/opinion/06tue3.html?th&emc=th)

Many airports, umpteen hotels, and countless other sources intentionally
offer their bandwidth freely. So, please spare me the moralizations and
legal citations about stealing someone's signal as we address the following
technical challenge:

I'll be on a boat full time. I'll be in range, more or less, of lots of
freely available access - such as San Francisco Bay, for example. I want to
be able to sit in the cabin (less signal due to fiberglass, mast, rigging,
etc.) or on deck, and access *WITHOUT WIRES* the available signal(s) on my
laptop.

Where I am now, there are very marginal signals available from several free
sites. There are also stronger signals available from several subscription
sites. So, I need either my external antenna's configuration utility, or my
internal Windoze Zero Configuration utility to be able to specify to which
of the access points I wish to associate my computer. Because I'll be in
differing locales, I'll not know the SSID or MAC addresses in advance.
Likewise, because I have no control over what's used, I have no assurance
that what I have installed will be the same manufacturer's in the AP. So,
requirements that I have the same mfr. gear, or specify SSID or MAC are out.
Likewise, as subscription sites are likely to have more powerful stations,
or just where I am at the time might have such differences, just having the
gear associate with the strongest signal won't get it either.

Previous attempts to find something I could put up the mast, with some minor
amplification to enable returning the signal, and about an 8.5dBi omni
antenna to hear the signal (omni because at anchor one never knows the
direction we'll face, and it changes all the time, and 8.5 because it's
strong enough without having a totally narrow pattern which would limit what
it saw) have failed miserably.

However, I'm reasonably sure that's just because I haven't looked in the
right places. I have a relatively unlimited amount of 12V available to
power this setup, whether POE or directly wired. If it doesn't come that
way, I can put whatever it is in a NEMA waterproof enclosure, keeping it
safe, with the antenna N-mounted to the box or the mast, putting all that
very high up, assuring good range.

So, who knows what I need to accomplish this? Recall that I want to be able
to have my laptop see the shoreside point, through whatever is up the mast,
and be able to communicate with it, in the same fashion as I'd do if I were
in immediate laptop range. Intermediate steps (such as seeing the SSIDs and
manually entering the one I want after selection from what's available) are
acceptable, but definitely not preferred over WZC or the like's point and
click.

I've entertained, but had defective/faulty/somehow not work
ethernet-connected bridges with the same omni 8.5dBi antenna setup associate
but fail to actually pass data, to a station known good as I can (like now)
communicate over it with my USB external antenna. As both of the Senao
2611CB3 Deluxe units I had behaved in that fashion, I assume this is another
case of manufacturer specific or other limiting circumstances, as I (gasp!)
about wore out the owner's manual, and did every possible change, one at a
time, with no success (other than association and the same signal and link
ratios as found on my USB antenna). So, I've given up on those.

Is there a plug-and-play solution to this technical challenge? Anybody done
the equivalent (something free-standing, some distance away from your
laptop, and a very long distance from the selectable AP you're using)?

Thanks for the assistance. We're getting ready to leave, permanently, and
would surely like to be able to access all the free APs now arising.

About a year ago there was an article on SlashDot.com where a bunch of
wireless nerds had successfully sent a basic signal (75) miles, they had
some special type of antenna made from a chinese wok(cooking device). I
took the article to our network team as from my cube I can see the
access point and get shitty signals!

 

[Glenn Ashmore]

That's great if you happen to be in an area with coverage but it won't work
in the Bahamas or Caribbean. No coverage on the Georgia coast or much of
the Gulf coast.

There are however some very good Wifi connections through out the Caribbean
and many marinas have hotspots now so unless you are day sailing in a
metropolitan area a normal wifi setup with a 200mw card and a 9db marine
antenna are MUCH better than cellular broadband.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

 

[Matt O'Toole]

Keith wrote:

I use my cell phone (Verizon) plugged into my laptop.

It's a slow dial-up connection (19,200?)

But it's no extra cost on my cell phone - just minutes.

I do the same thing. I think it's actually slower than that
(9600-14,400), but it's reliable, and more than adequate for text (email,
Usenet, command line server tweaks, etc.) It works anywhere I get a
digital signal, in the US or Canada.

Unfortunately the newer phones have this capability disabled so you have
to use the built-in mobile web, with its extra charges. This is why I'm
still using a 7 year old Star-Tac!

Matt O.

 

[Matt O'Toole]

Well, for what it's worth?
This is an LG web style phone Verizon offered as a trade.

I got the USB cable and dialer software from www.DataPilot.com

Which LG model?

Next I'd like to add a USB GPS and tracking software to the laptop. (If
I can keep it dry aboard boat?!?)

Now there's a can of worms! I still think Maptech 1.0 for DOS was the
best...

Matt O.

 

[Skip Gundlach]

hi skip,


in windows this should be trivial, under control panel -> network
connections, you'll have a wireless network tool that you can "view
wireless networks" on and it'll show you all the networks in range,
their signal strengths, and you just click on which ever one you want
to connect to and be done with it. so trivial, in fact, that based on
your obvious level of knowledge i must be misunderstanding the problem
you're having. or maybe you aren't running windows xp.

Affirmative on the former, negative on the latter.

WZC works only on a direct antenna. When I use my Hawking interface, with my
antenna, it won't see anything; without that interface, it does fine.
Actually, I prefer my Hawking interface; it's what I'm using here at the
tiny cottage sharing a signal from the landlord a couple thousand feet away.
It's the only signal, but allows me to see the strength in real terms, and
likewise the connection strength, vs the wimpy bars of WZC. With that info,
I was able to fine tune the location and orientation of the antenna.

certainly an omni up the mast will give you a better view. you can
also get a slightly louder voice by using a stronger signal, there are
cards out there that have a little more power. one such card is the
Senao card available at http://www.radiolabs.com/. by the way, there
are also a wide variety of omni directional antennas at that site.

That's not informative to me, at least as yet, because despite my relative
knowledge, there's obvious gaps (though I don't know what they are) in my
understanding.

My failed units are the Senao 2611CB3Deluxe, supposedly chainable by the
crossover cable supplied by the vendor, one each AP and Bridge
configurations. Bridge gets the stick, AP the duck antennas, but they
induce total mayhem in IP conflicts when joined, regardless of the level of
IP tweaking to NIC, wifi antenna, themselves, and so on.

Worse, though they're toggle-able, neither of them will, independently,
alone, in bridge mode, even though direct connected to the ethernet nic, and
addressable and configured in all the ways which won't crash, and, as well,
associated with a known good AP, pass data. That is, I can specify SSID,
verify that it's associated with the correct MAC address, but it won't surf,
mail, ping or tracert.

So, I've given up on those, as, if I can't even get it to work in a cat5
connected environment, it's not going to play nice with anything...

if you really want a debugging tool what you're looking for is kismet
running on a linux box (or partition). an old 50$us laptop works great
for this, it'll let you see exactly what AP's are out there, their
relative signal strengths, and you can see, immediately and in real
time, if you are getting packets from them without having to go to the
trouble of associating with them, etc, you'll see them all at once.
it's a good tool for checking your antenna configuration because you
can see differences based on where you put the antenna and how you have
it hooked up.

The Hawking utility on my current antenna (desktop encased in plastic bag,
or under the dodger on the boat) lets me see all that. The Senao units, if
I am willing to interrogate them, see all the APs and their signal
strengths, too, but, see above about communications.

I'm not sure what I need to debug - these two units aren't (individually)
working to factory spec, let alone together as the (obviously, based on
reviewing all the correspondence from the beginning of the fiasco) clueless
Senao rep asserted they would.

of course a directional/yagi would be the perfect solution if the boat
was steady on a calm day and wasn't swinging. i wouldn't want too
narrow a beam on it though or any boat motion would lose signal, but
sort of a 180 degree down to 45 degree field of view would be nice.

Heh. That is why I went with an omni, and only 8.5dBi, with a slight
downtilt. The relative pattern far out will be somewhat taller than the
mast at shoreside, and painting down into the water, depending on the
distance. The typical slight rock will make for a sweep of the hillside,
and the changing heading won't matter.

When I was doing my last-ditch effort at making one of them work solely as a
wired bridge, the omni 8.5 next to the desktop directional 6.5 got the same
stations at the same intensity, so it's a good tradeoff, I think.
Regardless, the desktop won't be suited to use outdoors or higher up than I
can easily reach, but I *could* make that work at an anchorage so long as I
was willing to keep repositioning it on the dodger zipper every shift of
wind...

But I have to believe there's a plug-and-play which will do the job. I just
haven't found it yet...

Other threads other places have cited something I already knew about at
1800, something else I'm giving a look at about 500 (about what I have in
this one but without the hundreds of hours trying to make it work), and some
leads to other stuff. I'll keep looking :{))


--
L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
http://tinyurl.com/p7rb4 - NOTE:new URL! The vessel as Tehamana, as we
bought her

"And then again, when you sit at the helm of your little ship on a clear
night, and gaze at the countless stars overhead, and realize that you are
quite alone on a great, wide sea, it is apt to occur to you that in the
general scheme of things you are merely an insignificant speck on the
surface of the ocean; and are not nearly so important or as self-sufficient
as you thought you were. Which is an exceedingly wholesome thought, and one
that may effect a permanent change in your deportment that will be greatly
appreciated by your friends."- James S. Pitkin>

 

[Bill Kearney]

But I have to believe there's a plug-and-play which will do the job. I
just

haven't found it yet...

Me neither. I'm going the route of using an old laptop as a router on the
boat. I'll let it act as an access point to my laptop (and my wife's) or
anyone else nearby and have it grab a land-based access point. That way the
laptops won't have to reconfigure themselves for anything. I may use a
Linksys WRT54G for the task but haven't spent the time wrestling with the
various firmware upgrades that are available for it (a prev v5 unit can run
linux).

-Bill Kearney

 

[Larry]

But I have to believe there's a plug-and-play which will do the job. I

At the home marina, a group of boaters simply got together and bought
cable internet from the local cable company. The modem and wireless
router are in a waterproof box on a post about in the middle of the group
paying for the cable internet. On top of the box is two 2400 Mhz high
gain verticals cabled into the space diversity jacks on the wireless to
get them up as high as possible. SSID is BOAT and the router is left
unsecured so anyone in range can use it. Range is about 400', amazingly
enough, and other local boaters who wanted it have voluntarily joined the
"wifi club", reducing everyone's monthly outlay below $10 for serious
wifi bandwidth with no commercial funny business tryin to bleed them for
bandwidth.

I just gave my local Denny's a wireless router to replaced their wired
one because I wanted bandwidth with breakfast so I could peruse the
news/weather without having to wade through the local paper spammer for
75c/day. Sit in non-smoking where the signal is better because it's
closer to the office where the little Netgear sit atop a cabinet against
no-smoking section's back wall. It's plugged into Denny's broadband and
works great! Help yourself. Add some tip to the waitresses' meager
incomes to help lower your guilt feelings using it for free...(c; SSID
is (default) so's noone knows who it belongs to. It's not an advertised
hotspot.

Now I can't complain that breakfast has risen to over $8, any more.