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Follow-up to HID dimming question

S

scott

Gentlemen

I attended the meeting with the sales rep., sales and marketing manager and
technical specialist today and I managed to determine some basic facts about
the the system, as well as gain access to a local installation that will be
trialled over the next 3 months.

It appears that the intention is not to apparently dim the lighting system
significantly, but to exploit that zone Victor mentioned where the human eye
will have trouble discerning the change in lumen output. I explained that my
Topcon IM2D will not have the same problems determining code-compliance.

It can dim down to 40% power, but they suggest 20% power reduction is more
realistic due to colour shift and lamp instability.

The majority of their installations is in Hong Kong and China, where a major
benefit of the system is to regulate the circuit Voltage when the supply
varies from 220V under peak load to 260V at night.

They claim that the relationship between lumen output and circuit power is
lineal - this I find hard to believe, but site testing will prove or
disprove this.

The only technical explanation they can give for their "patented"
technology, is that it uses an inverter, and outputs a sinusoidal waveform
of controlled Voltage. Probably the SVC system Thomas referred to.

Dimming is done for the entire final sub-circuit at the board. Each
controller is rated to 180 Amps.

The system will control HID and fluorescent loads, even with both on the
same circuit. All luminaires must have magnetic ballasts.

They could not answer my questions about the frequency of the output
sinusoidal waveform. (My assumption is that since the inductive reactance
(impedence) of the ballast is proportional to frequency, raising the circuit
frequency will increase the XL and therefore reduce the power to the lamp.)
If that's the case, then why has it not been done before?

The installation they have granted me access to, is on two floors of an
underground carpark at a casino on the Gold Coast. One floor will be fitted
with the dimming system and the other floor left untouched as a baseline
comparison. It sound s fairly legitimate, and should be a reasonable test,
though it may not reveal lamp life issues during 3 months trial.

I will keep you posted of my findings.

Thanks again for your help and guidance. As always, it's much appreciated.

Scott Forbes
 
S

SQLit

scott said:
Gentlemen

I attended the meeting with the sales rep., sales and marketing manager and
technical specialist today and I managed to determine some basic facts about
the the system, as well as gain access to a local installation that will be
trialled over the next 3 months.

It appears that the intention is not to apparently dim the lighting system
significantly, but to exploit that zone Victor mentioned where the human eye
will have trouble discerning the change in lumen output. I explained that my
Topcon IM2D will not have the same problems determining code-compliance.

It can dim down to 40% power, but they suggest 20% power reduction is more
realistic due to colour shift and lamp instability.

The majority of their installations is in Hong Kong and China, where a major
benefit of the system is to regulate the circuit Voltage when the supply
varies from 220V under peak load to 260V at night.

They claim that the relationship between lumen output and circuit power is
lineal - this I find hard to believe, but site testing will prove or
disprove this.

The only technical explanation they can give for their "patented"
technology, is that it uses an inverter, and outputs a sinusoidal waveform
of controlled Voltage. Probably the SVC system Thomas referred to.

Dimming is done for the entire final sub-circuit at the board. Each
controller is rated to 180 Amps.

The system will control HID and fluorescent loads, even with both on the
same circuit. All luminaires must have magnetic ballasts.

They could not answer my questions about the frequency of the output
sinusoidal waveform. (My assumption is that since the inductive reactance
(impedence) of the ballast is proportional to frequency, raising the circuit
frequency will increase the XL and therefore reduce the power to the lamp.)
If that's the case, then why has it not been done before?

The installation they have granted me access to, is on two floors of an
underground carpark at a casino on the Gold Coast. One floor will be fitted
with the dimming system and the other floor left untouched as a baseline
comparison. It sound s fairly legitimate, and should be a reasonable test,
though it may not reveal lamp life issues during 3 months trial.

I will keep you posted of my findings.

Thanks again for your help and guidance. As always, it's much appreciated.

Scott Forbes

Scott
Do you remember the "magic bottons" that went under an incandencent bulb
that made them last longer? This sounds like that.
What kind of metering are they going to install?
I did a lighting retro fit for the US government and the local utility for 5
buildings at the local U. They installed metering on the lighting panels a
year in advance of the change out. Then monitored for two years afterward.
Peak demand on and off peak, kwh, and total THD. This change out was with
electronic ballasts and fluorescents. Original electronic ballasts were 20%
THD, I found some that at the time were <10% THD. The harmonic numbers in
the beginning were staggering. Check some compact fluorescents some time,
educational. Oh, ya with a little thought from me, we achieved 30% savings
double the calculated savings, lighting only. We also read the building
meters, the drop was not noticeable there. New equipment installed in the
buildings and all that.

Please keep us informed as to your saga.
 
S

scott

Hi Thomas

I'm an independent lighting engineer based in Brisbane. There is a small
group of us who work together, and we contract out to manufacturers, large
end-users, consulting engineers etc. This particular application is for the
Brisbane Airport, for which we have a maintenance/advisory contract.

The Gold Coast job is a retrofit of Jupiters Casino. It was built back in
the late eighties and I can't remember who the engineers were - probably
Lincolne-Scott or Norman Disney Young.

When were you involved in the Australian side of the business?

Regards
Scott
 
S

scott

I knew that the clients must be enthusiastic in some part of the world......
 
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