exists an etch resistant pen from corner drugstore/office supply ?

[Jamie]

A Sharpie or fingernail polish. The fingernail polish is easier to
use if thinned about 50% with acetone. Apply with a pointed brush.

Is this before or after you do your own nails?

 

[Gary Tait]

One time I did consider searching for and trying out pens but decided
not to. I didn't feel like making a special trip just for a pen.

Instead I've tried the following alternatives:

* Nail polish + brush
* Small brush and spray paint.. (1st make spray blob on card board.)
* Lacquer in medical needle.
* Stencil and spray paint
* Scotch clear tape
* Over clear tape + rework with dremel tool
* Silicone in medical needle.
* Glue gun glue

D from BC

For wider traces, I have used black vinyl electrical tape.
I have used narrow tip permanent markers.

 

[D from BC]

For wider traces, I have used black vinyl electrical tape.
I have used narrow tip permanent markers.

Yup..I used black vinyl tape too.
The vinyl for labels, decals and stickers work good too.
But no more...
I use dryfilm photoresist now (in a darkroom).

My chemistry is not good.. I'm wondering if there is a chemical that
can make a copper oxide layer that either Ammonium P or Ferric C won't
react??
Instead of an ink pen..How about a oxidizing pen?


D from BC

 

[Rich Grise]

Is this before or after you do your own nails?

Do it before you do your nails, otherwise you'd have to let them
dry first. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Jim Thompson]

[snip]

For wider traces, I have used black vinyl electrical tape.
I have used narrow tip permanent markers.

A few years ago I bought my wife a Stika vinyl cutter, for her Girl
Scout signs AND for masking sand-blasted "etched" glass objects.

I've been tempted to try making a PCB mask the same way.

...Jim Thompson

 

[James Arthur]

Works for me. So far I've done four or five PCBs with a Sharpie. Helps to
go over and re-ink the pattern, I've had one with somewhat spotty tracks-
looked like wood grain.

Tim

Tim,
I get medicore results with Sharpies. The ink holds off the echant,
but warm FeCl eventually works through an starts etching underneath.
How 'bout for you?

Ditto for the Staedtler Lumicolorp 'red' pens, though these appear
marginally better--haven't rigorously tested.

Both Lumicolor and Sharpie are much more resistant if baked over my
stove's pilot light first--about 60c for ten to a zillion minutes
(depending on when I remember to retrieve).

An official "etch resist pen" from Radio Shack--thirty years old and
still going strong--is best of all (it uses lacquer), but even it
benefits from the heat treatment. DigiKey & Allied(?) still offer
these.

My last quickie board was experimental: spray acrylic on board, draw
land pattern with marker (for a guide), then scratch isolation lines
between (through the acrylic). Pretty decent: super quick, excellent
resolution, and etches very quickly.

Cheers,
James Arthur

 

[Tim Williams]

I get medicore results with Sharpies. The ink holds off the echant,
but warm FeCl eventually works through an starts etching underneath.
How 'bout for you?

When I can't see the copper under the ink, it works out fine for me. I
have a "Bic 4x4 Grip" marker here, which inevitably makes a thin purple
mark. Where it's thinnest -- and it of course varies like wood grain -- I
get scratches in the track.

I don't use warm FeCl3, and my chemistry may be different. I made mine (of
course!), by dissolving rust and whatnot iron compounds in muriatic acid.
It's a dark brown solution with a curiously fruity smell accompanying the
acid fumes. That may be due to chlorine and acid reacting with the plastic
container, I don't know.

I don't remember what weight my PCB is, but it's probably the usual --
what, 2 ounce? It takes about 20 minutes with room temperature solution
and intermittent stirring.

Both Lumicolor and Sharpie are much more resistant if baked over my
stove's pilot light first--about 60c for ten to a zillion minutes
(depending on when I remember to retrieve).

I've had consistent results ranging from blow dry mere minutes before etch,
to day old ink. I haven't tried heat-curing it, but I don't see any reason
to.

My last quickie board was experimental: spray acrylic on board, draw
land pattern with marker (for a guide), then scratch isolation lines
between (through the acrylic). Pretty decent: super quick, excellent
resolution, and etches very quickly.

Interesting. Should work nice with RF, too, if you ground all the floating
sections. Not a good idea around HV though!

Tim

 

[Rich Grise]

An official "etch resist pen" from Radio Shack--thirty years old and
still going strong--is best of all (it uses lacquer), but even it
benefits from the heat treatment. DigiKey & Allied(?) still offer
these.

I bought one of those many years ago as well, and except for
the "etch resist" logo or whatever it was imprinted on the side,
it was indistinguishable from a Sharpie.

Admittedly, the ink may have had some exotic additives, but it
looked and smelled and worked just like a Sharpie.

And it resisted the FeCl3 quite well, thank you. I etched the
board in a glass baking dish out in the sun on the asphalt
driveway.

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

A few years ago I bought my wife a Stika vinyl cutter, for her Girl
Scout signs AND for masking sand-blasted "etched" glass objects.

I've been tempted to try making a PCB mask the same way.

As long as the etchant doesn't undercut the adhesive, I don't
see why not.

Cheers!
Rich

 

[James Arthur]

When I can't see the copper under the ink, it works out fine for me. I
have a "Bic 4x4 Grip" marker here, which inevitably makes a thin purple
mark. Where it's thinnest -- and it of course varies like wood grain -- I
get scratches in the track.

That's the main defect I get with Sharpies. If quickly retrieved the
traces are weakened, but not wrecked.

I don't use warm FeCl3, and my chemistry may be different. I made mine (of
course!), by dissolving rust and whatnot iron compounds in muriatic acid.
It's a dark brown solution with a curiously fruity smell accompanying the
acid fumes. That may be due to chlorine and acid reacting with the plastic
container, I don't know.

I don't remember what weight my PCB is, but it's probably the usual --
what, 2 ounce? It takes about 20 minutes with room temperature solution
and intermittent stirring.

Hmmm. I have had okay results with Sharpies on occasion, but suppose
I've changed some important process variable.

Fresh warm (50-60c-ish) etchant does my boards in <10 minutes,
sometimes under 5 minutes. Even faster if rubbed with a cotton swab
or ball (but this underetches traces). Heat is probably harder on the
Sharpie ink.

My boards also may be too slick and shiny for ink adhesion.

I've had consistent results ranging from blow dry mere minutes before etch,
to day old ink. I haven't tried heat-curing it, but I don't see any reason
to.


Interesting. Should work nice with RF, too, if you ground all the floating
sections. Not a good idea around HV though!

Tim

*No* floating sections, not on that board (a small, isolated DC-DC
floating supply for use in another project) anyway.

I don't do a whole bunch of boards, but it sure is nice to be able to
whip one out when needed.

Thanks for the feedback--

James Arthur

 

[James Arthur]

I bought one of those many years ago as well, and except for
the "etch resist" logo or whatever it was imprinted on the side,
it was indistinguishable from a Sharpie.

Admittedly, the ink may have had some exotic additives, but it
looked and smelled and worked just like a Sharpie.

And it resisted the FeCl3 quite well, thank you. I etched the
board in a glass baking dish out in the sun on the asphalt
driveway.

Cheers!
Rich

I half-wondered if Sharpie changed their formula, since they quit
working well for me, but your and Tim's testimony suggest it's me
somehow.

I have directly compared smells and Sharpie is definitely not the
same. The lacquer pen smells distinctly 'solventy'; the Sharpie
doesn't.

Ahh uh'preciate's the info Rich,

Best,
James Arthur

 

[crominator]

Is this before or after you do your own nails?

After I do my nails. Too thin to use on them if I do it
before......

Crom

 

[robb]

I half-wondered if Sharpie changed their formula, since they quit
working well for me, but your and Tim's testimony suggest it's me
somehow.

I have directly compared smells and Sharpie is definitely not the
same. The lacquer pen smells distinctly 'solventy'; the Sharpie
doesn't.

Ahh uh'preciate's the info Rich,

Best,
James Arthur

The Sharpie site has links to MSDS for each product they sell
some of the markers have different formulation thn other. and
sharpie apparently has a line of paint markers as well which i
did not see at my local store.

as for Sharpie resist., i just tried the Black fine point
Sharpie on my board using the muriatic + peroxide etchant and
the sharpie did resist that etch . i made sure the line was heavy
with no copper glimmer showing through

my etching + agitating was working faster on edges and not in
middle or between the small traces so ... i...

decided to speed up (**even out**) the process by using a medium
sized CRAYOLA 3135 paint brush made with plastic handle and {rat
or cat hair bristles ? } (very soft). I swished it over the the
board and traces where the reaction was moving slowly and this
sped things up quite alot.

but then i ripped off some traces trying to tin the board with a
weller 40Watt bazooka (it was my first DIY board) boo hoo

robb

 

[Tim Williams]

but then i ripped off some traces trying to tin the board with a
weller 40Watt bazooka (it was my first DIY board) boo hoo

Heh, my 40W iron (essentially the same model as Radioshack's 30W iron, but
with a bigger tip and element) gets painfully hot, so I put a 50 ohm
resistor in series with it. It's still awfully hot, but not to the same
degree at least. At any rate, phenolic boards tend to delaminate and old
ones even pop as the track heats up. FR4 seems to be just fine around this
kind of heat though.

Get some real PCB stock.

Tim

 

[James Arthur]

The Sharpie site has links to MSDS for each product they sell
some of the markers have different formulation thn other. and
sharpie apparently has a line of paint markers as well which i
did not see at my local store.

I've heard that "paint markers" (e.g. white uniball px203) are
excellent, but haven't seen or tried them.

Jim Thompson wrote some time ago that "Liquid Embroidery" pens from
craft and fabric stores have an asphalt-based ink that makes great
resist, but fine lines are difficult.

as for Sharpie resist., i just tried the Black fine point
Sharpie on my board using the muriatic + peroxide etchant and
the sharpie did resist that etch . i made sure the line was heavy
with no copper glimmer showing through

my etching + agitating was working faster on edges and not in
middle or between the small traces so ... i...

decided to speed up (**even out**) the process by using a medium
sized CRAYOLA 3135 paint brush made with plastic handle and {rat
or cat hair bristles ? } (very soft). I swished it over the the
board and traces where the reaction was moving slowly and this
sped things up quite alot.

but then i ripped off some traces trying to tin the board with a
weller 40Watt bazooka (it was my first DIY board) boo hoo

robb

Hey, put a 1n4007 diode in series with that iron. It'll still get
plenty hot enough to solder with, and it won't chew up tips or
traces. Mine's installed in an in-cord switch, along with a neon
indicator bulb.

(view in Courier font)

/
/ SW
~ >---+-------o o--------+-----.
| | |
| | |
| .-----. | \
| | | | / Soldering
'--|-|) (|-|--/\/\/--' \ Iron
| | /
'-----' |
NE-2 |
~ >------------------------------'


The neon bulb lights for "low / idle." Flick the switch for "high"
when you need to solder something heavy. A very useful accessory that
you'll really enjoy.

Cheers,
James Arthur

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 09:05:36 -0700, James Arthur

[snip]

Jim Thompson wrote some time ago that "Liquid Embroidery" pens from
craft and fabric stores have an asphalt-based ink that makes great
resist, but fine lines are difficult.

[snip]

Excellent memory, or excellent filing system?

...Jim Thompson

 

[D from BC]

On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 09:05:36 -0700, James Arthur

[snip]

Jim Thompson wrote some time ago that "Liquid Embroidery" pens from
craft and fabric stores have an asphalt-based ink that makes great
resist, but fine lines are difficult.

[snip]

Excellent memory, or excellent filing system?

...Jim Thompson

News achieve search.


D from BC

 

[Rich Grise]

Heh, my 40W iron (essentially the same model as Radioshack's 30W iron, but
with a bigger tip and element) gets painfully hot, so I put a 50 ohm
resistor in series with it. It's still awfully hot, but not to the same
degree at least. At any rate, phenolic boards tend to delaminate and old
ones even pop as the track heats up. FR4 seems to be just fine around this
kind of heat though.

I have a Weller SP-23, 25 watt, and it got so hot that I cut the cord
and put in an SPST switch with a diode across it - when I open the
switch, it puts the diode in series. At one time, I thought that
that would make it consume half the power, but a couple of years
ago, someone explained to me that it actually only decreases it
to .707, something to do with RMS.

But it makes the iron a nice comfortable soldering temp. for small
stuff.

Cheers!
Rich

 

[James Arthur]

On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 09:05:36 -0700, James Arthur


[snip]

Jim Thompson wrote some time ago that "Liquid Embroidery" pens from
craft and fabric stores have an asphalt-based ink that makes great
resist, but fine lines are difficult.

[snip]

Excellent memory, or excellent filing system?

...Jim Thompson

They are, mostly, one and the same, but to be quite sure of faithfully
preserving your particulars, I confirmed the facts before posting.

Cheers,
James Arthur

 

[G]

I have a Weller SP-23, 25 watt, and it got so hot that I cut the cord
and put in an SPST switch with a diode across it - when I open the
switch, it puts the diode in series. At one time, I thought that
that would make it consume half the power, but a couple of years
ago, someone explained to me that it actually only decreases it
to .707, something to do with RMS.

But it makes the iron a nice comfortable soldering temp. for small
stuff

I have the RS iron that has the switch and diode in the handle. Very portable.

I also used the diode and switch in a Minibox long ago..
Also the lamp dimmer model.

greg