European 220VAC/50Hz single phase

[Jamie Morken]

Hi,

I am wondering if a software programmable split phase
true sine inverter outputting 230VAC/60Hz split phase
designed for North American power could be used in
Europe to power 220VAC/50Hz single phase assuming it
could switch to 220VAC/50Hz split phase. I guess both
wires would be live at 110VAC instead of there being a
common, is this safe/legal?

cheers,
Jamie

 

[Jan Panteltje]

Hi,

I am wondering if a software programmable split phase
true sine inverter outputting 230VAC/60Hz split phase
designed for North American power could be used in
Europe to power 220VAC/50Hz single phase assuming it
could switch to 220VAC/50Hz split phase. I guess both
wires would be live at 110VAC instead of there being a
common, is this safe/legal?

cheers,
Jamie

I dunno, but most of Europe is 230V these days.

 

[SparkyGuy]

I am wondering if a software programmable split phase

true sine inverter outputting 230VAC/60Hz split phase
designed for North American power could be used in
Europe to power 220VAC/50Hz single phase assuming it
could switch to 220VAC/50Hz split phase. I guess both
wires would be live at 110VAC instead of there being a
common, is this safe/legal?

cheers,
Jamie

Here in N. America it is referred to as 110/220 split phase and is
implemented as you say: 110 from neutral to (each) "hot", and 220 from hot to
hot. If the inverter is built with a neutral conductor as well (as built to
meet National Electrical Code specifications), it is indeed legal for use in
N. America to provide these voltages.

If all you want is the 220v, you can simply not use the neutral conductor.
This is how it is normally done in N. America. A ground (earth) should always
accompany all of these conductors when wiring, of course.

How you implement this in Europe is anyone's guess as to its legality.

Good luck.

 

[Nico Coesel]

Hi,

I am wondering if a software programmable split phase
true sine inverter outputting 230VAC/60Hz split phase
designed for North American power could be used in
Europe to power 220VAC/50Hz single phase assuming it
could switch to 220VAC/50Hz split phase. I guess both
wires would be live at 110VAC instead of there being a
common, is this safe/legal?

No problem. The hot and neutral conductor are not specified over here
so equipment expects 230VAC between hot and neutral. Ofcourse, the
equipment must be properly grounded when required.

 

[Joerg]

Hi,

I am wondering if a software programmable split phase
true sine inverter outputting 230VAC/60Hz split phase
designed for North American power could be used in
Europe to power 220VAC/50Hz single phase assuming it
could switch to 220VAC/50Hz split phase. I guess both
wires would be live at 110VAC instead of there being a
common, is this safe/legal?

It's not legal AFAIR. There is no 50:50 split-phase in Europe anymore,
maybe with the exception of tiny legacy grids way out in the boonies. At
least for new installation you can't do that. Just like here in the US
electricians refer to line (often called phase over there) and neutral.
And they expect neutral to be neutral ;-)

You should be aware of another snare, "classical earth ground" or
whatever they call that. Used to be popular in Germany and it's
dangerous: Protective earth is hardwired to neutral in the wall outlets.
Now imagine someone touching "neutral" on your unit ... bzzzz ... THUD.

 

[Jamie Morken]

It's not legal AFAIR. There is no 50:50 split-phase in Europe anymore,
maybe with the exception of tiny legacy grids way out in the boonies. At
least for new installation you can't do that. Just like here in the US
electricians refer to line (often called phase over there) and neutral.
And they expect neutral to be neutral ;-)

You should be aware of another snare, "classical earth ground" or
whatever they call that. Used to be popular in Germany and it's
dangerous: Protective earth is hardwired to neutral in the wall outlets.
Now imagine someone touching "neutral" on your unit ... bzzzz ... THUD.

I was thinking about it more and since the output of the converter is
isolated, I think one of the 110VAC phases can just hook right up to
ground, and then the other will be the live 220VAC/50Hz.

cheers,
Jamie

 

[Paul Burke]

I dunno, but most of Europe is 230V these days.

Nominally. All they really did was redefine the tolerances to cover
everyone's 220V-240V systems. Britain is still 240V, but that falls
withing the 230V +10% -6% range.

 

[Jan Panteltje]

Nominally. All they really did was redefine the tolerances to cover
everyone's 220V-240V systems. Britain is still 240V, but that falls
withing the 230V +10% -6% range.

Well, that was how it started, I measure 230 here now.

 

[Mike]

It's not legal AFAIR. There is no 50:50 split-phase in Europe anymore,
maybe with the exception of tiny legacy grids way out in the boonies. At
least for new installation you can't do that. Just like here in the US
electricians refer to line (often called phase over there) and neutral.
And they expect neutral to be neutral ;-)

You should be aware of another snare, "classical earth ground" or
whatever they call that. Used to be popular in Germany and it's
dangerous: Protective earth is hardwired to neutral in the wall outlets.
Now imagine someone touching "neutral" on your unit ... bzzzz ... THUD.

Maybe I'm reading what you are saying completely wrong but just how is
that dangerous? The potential of the neutral of many domestic and
commercial installations worldwide is very close to earth - but not
hardwired as such.


--

 

[Joerg]

I was thinking about it more and since the output of the converter is
isolated, I think one of the 110VAC phases can just hook right up to
ground, and then the other will be the live 220VAC/50Hz.

Be careful, some inverters are not isolated and put the 12V battery in
series with the secondary circuit to save a few pennies on the
transformer core. True sine versions are sometimes better because they
sell for more money. Sometimes, not always.

 

[Joerg]

Maybe I'm reading what you are saying completely wrong but just how is
that dangerous? The potential of the neutral of many domestic and
commercial installations worldwide is very close to earth - but not
hardwired as such.

Example, happened to me once: Neutral got loose in a wiring box. I
plugged an appliance in and turned it on. Nada. Dang! Tilted it with
both hands to see whether the power cord had fallen out the back IEC
connector, and my knee touched a radiator. The large ones they use for
heating over there, connected to the central heat and water. Bzzz ...
OUCH! Because the neutral had come off and PE was bridged to it in a
downstream outlet the enclosure was now live at 230VAC, "current
limited" by a 1500W heating coil in that appliance.