EE educations, worldwide?

[John Larkin]

As Rene said if you fail the repeat test that's the end of it.

Heck, I failed Dynamics at Tulane. It was an incredibly tedious 8AM
course with mountains of silly homework, and I had other things on my
mind at the time. I took it again in summer school, with a different
instructor and a lot of truck-driver-type classmates, and got a B.

John

 

[[email protected]]

How about some facts the other direction? "To safeguard and protect the
public ... yada, yada, yada.." Where's the proof that it does?

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/08/us/09cnd-bridge.html?pagewanted=print

As for bridge failures I don't have any statistics for Europe but if
there was a spat of major events like the above it would have been on
the news there and it wasn't. Ok, maybe I missed one but the only
failures I remember were metal girder issues way back in the 70's, and
pre-stressed concrete bridges where inspectors found corrosion (but
before anything happened).

When you travel over there you can cross bridges that were built by
<gasp> unlicensed Roman engineers more than 1500 years ago and they hold
up just fine. So, show me a credible news report from the last few year
about a major bridge collapse in Europe, of the seriousness we have seen
this year, and I'll stand corrected.

Ah, but what about the Roman bridges that collapsed 1,000 years ago,
and we've just never heard about them?

<grin>

Michael

 

[Joerg]

Heck, I failed Dynamics at Tulane. It was an incredibly tedious 8AM
course with mountains of silly homework, and I had other things on my
mind at the time. I took it again in summer school, with a different
instructor and a lot of truck-driver-type classmates, and got a B.

With courses that I deemed not too relevant my motto was: B is the A of
the little guy. Whatever it took to get the degree, good enough. Guess
what, nobody ever asked to see any of this stuff except gov agencies and
those didn't care about the grades.

 

[Joerg]

Ah, but what about the Roman bridges that collapsed 1,000 years ago,
and we've just never heard about them?

<grin>

Some were abandoned and, of course, decayed. Vegetation overtook them,
usually. The most sad case was a historic bridge in Mostar, former
Yugoslavia. Fully functional and in active use. We sat there speechless
in front of the TV when we saw a video from a newscaster showing how
some rebels blew it up and made rubble out of it :-(

 

[Jim Thompson]

How about some facts the other direction? "To safeguard and protect the
public ... yada, yada, yada.." Where's the proof that it does?

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/08/us/09cnd-bridge.html?pagewanted=print

Minneapolis is a poor citation... those people are known crooks,
taking maintenance funds and shuffling it into "pockets". Ultimately
some heads will roll... only because some media types have latched
onto it like a snapping turtle ;-)

As for bridge failures I don't have any statistics for Europe but if
there was a spat of major events like the above it would have been on
the news there and it wasn't. Ok, maybe I missed one but the only
failures I remember were metal girder issues way back in the 70's, and
pre-stressed concrete bridges where inspectors found corrosion (but
before anything happened).

I'm just asking for some percentages.

When you travel over there you can cross bridges that were built by
<gasp> unlicensed Roman engineers more than 1500 years ago and they hold
up just fine. So, show me a credible news report from the last few year
about a major bridge collapse in Europe, of the seriousness we have seen
this year, and I'll stand corrected.

Do you know what the cost of a "Roman style" stone bridge, capable of
handling 6 lanes in each direction, with semi-truck traffic would be
?

Of course, 'twere I to peruse French records... something fails there
daily ;-)

...Jim Thompson

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 07:12:54 -0700, Joerg
[snip]

As Rene said if you fail the repeat test that's the end of it.

Heck, I failed Dynamics at Tulane. It was an incredibly tedious 8AM
course with mountains of silly homework, and I had other things on my
mind at the time. I took it again in summer school, with a different
instructor and a lot of truck-driver-type classmates, and got a B.

John

I had to endure Samuelson's leftist weenie economic crap at MIT. First
time through, "F", second time through I slept less, "D" (but only
because "N" read it and explained it to me ;-)

Being in the honors EE program at MIT I had to take various courses,
including Dynamics, with those people majoring on that area. But I
found Dynamics interesting and got an "A".

I could barely cope with Atomic Physics, because I couldn't grab those
little SOB electrons and take a good look at them... "D" :-(

...Jim Thompson

 

[Joel Kolstad]

Guess what, nobody ever asked to see any of this stuff except gov agencies
and those didn't care about the grades.

These days big companies seem much more concerned about your credit history
and your general health. Talk about priorities...

 

[Jim Thompson]

These days big companies seem much more concerned about your credit history
and your general health. Talk about priorities...

I'm working a design right now where the major concern is the
"report", NOT the quality of the circuit design :-(

...Jim Thompson

 

[Calvin Guan]

college level electromagnetism/waveguide/antenna courses are not terribly
difficult. Vector calculus treatment for E&M problems is brilliant and quite
intuitive. The problem is my college taught/teaches vector calculus in a
pure math context then E&M was taught later. I could mathematically evaluate
divergence, curl, gradient, integrals of line, surface, potential etc of
vector fields but didn't really know what curl and div mean in physics
context. when I was taught E&M and saw curl and div again, it was a real
mess. I spent quite a lot of time in building the connection between vector
cal and E&M, finally everything made perfect sense to me and I quite enjoyed
it.

EM solver -- which is the numerical treatment of the Maxwell's equations is
very important to microwave design. In many cases, it's very difficult to
design good microwave circuits, enclosures, structures without a good em
solver. Even matching component leads to a printed microstrip PCB can be
challenging. Currently, I'm facing a problem of designing coax probe that
can critically couple the incident wave into a cavity. It'd make my life
much much easier if I have a full wave 3d solver. Many commercial solvers
require certain level of field knowledge's to use it correctly and
efficiently. A good RF engineer would not treat the solver as a black magic,
so EM knowledge is important.

Calvin

 

[Joerg]

Minneapolis is a poor citation... those people are known crooks,
taking maintenance funds and shuffling it into "pockets". Ultimately
some heads will roll... only because some media types have latched
onto it like a snapping turtle ;-)

Ahm, that kind of flaw wasn't detected by media types but by the
Federales and it looks like it ain't the only state where they suspect
similar issues coming.

Also, there have been more collapses than just this one.

I'm just asking for some percentages.

Well, what can I say if Google doesn't find any major recent bridge
collapses in Europe? Zero percent?

Do you know what the cost of a "Roman style" stone bridge, capable of
handling 6 lanes in each direction, with semi-truck traffic would be
?

They sometimes used cheap labor. There are also some really old bridges
with steel as the main support system. I rode to school across one as a
kid and that thing is IIRC over 200 years old. Was built for horse
carriage traffic and now trucks were rumbling over it, no sweat.

Of course, 'twere I to peruse French records... something fails there
daily ;-)

Bridges?

 

[Joerg]

These days big companies seem much more concerned about your credit history
and your general health. Talk about priorities...

Yep, and credit histories can be full of flaws. But OTOH who wants to
work for a company that pegs your ability to do circuit design against a
credit history? When I came to the US I didn't even have one. I guess
that would have really been a red flag for some Dilbert-class HR manager.

 

[Joerg]

On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 07:12:54 -0700, Joerg

[snip]

As Rene said if you fail the repeat test that's the end of it.

Heck, I failed Dynamics at Tulane. It was an incredibly tedious 8AM
course with mountains of silly homework, and I had other things on my
mind at the time. I took it again in summer school, with a different
instructor and a lot of truck-driver-type classmates, and got a B.

John

I had to endure Samuelson's leftist weenie economic crap at MIT. First
time through, "F", second time through I slept less, "D" (but only
because "N" read it and explained it to me ;-)

Being in the honors EE program at MIT I had to take various courses,
including Dynamics, with those people majoring on that area. But I
found Dynamics interesting and got an "A".

I could barely cope with Atomic Physics, because I couldn't grab those
little SOB electrons and take a good look at them... "D" :-(

I sat in courses for MEs because I thought it was important to learn
about structural engineering, stress fatigue and all that. Took the
exam. Passed with flying colors. BIG mistake. The credit assignment
computer errored and spit out my student ID number and that of two
others as "non-belongers". They read us the riot act.

 

[Charlie Edmondson]

With courses that I deemed not too relevant my motto was: B is the A of
the little guy. Whatever it took to get the degree, good enough. Guess
what, nobody ever asked to see any of this stuff except gov agencies and
those didn't care about the grades.

Well, as I have said before, my BS was in Psychology, so when I went
back to school for my Masters in EE, it was an 'interesting' time.

Of course, I had been a hobbyiest and technician for years, so had a
good 'intuitive' grasp of electronics. My first year, at UNM doing
preliminary work in calculus, physics and diffeq, I had a 4.0. When I
went to UCSB, though, it was harder, but for a different reason.

First, I decided to take some of the basics, circuit analysis, signal
analysis, fields and waves, as I had never really had the 'math' side of
that stuff. Big mistake. First, I started in January, and found out I
had already missed the first part of circuit analysis, so I would be
starting in the middle. Second, these were the 'weed' courses. There
was reams of homework, rigorously graded, but fairly difficult exams,
and I was up against a bunch of bright, over-acheiving sophmores, while
I was an old (mid-30s), lazy, engineer type. Those kids ate my lunch as
far as grades, and I found myself with a less than 3.0 GPA (a big No-No
if you are a graduate student!)

The second quarter, I found out the secret - graduate courses! I could
take take either circuits 3, or Microwave Circuits! It was my saving
grace. In the standard class, there was an emphasis on basic theory,
reams of repetitive homework, and anal grading of everything. In the
graduate course, they focused on what was really important in the
theory, gave interesting and difficult homework, but the grading was
realisting and more constructive criticism than punishment. And
finally, it was graded as a graduate course, so the typical grade was a
B not a C!


Now, I still ended up in academic probation, partially due to problems
in working with the Fields and Waves professor, but I did graduate!

Charlie

 

[Joerg]

Well, as I have said before, my BS was in Psychology, so when I went
back to school for my Masters in EE, it was an 'interesting' time.

Of course, I had been a hobbyiest and technician for years, so had a
good 'intuitive' grasp of electronics. My first year, at UNM doing
preliminary work in calculus, physics and diffeq, I had a 4.0. When I
went to UCSB, though, it was harder, but for a different reason.

First, I decided to take some of the basics, circuit analysis, signal
analysis, fields and waves, as I had never really had the 'math' side of
that stuff. Big mistake. First, I started in January, and found out I
had already missed the first part of circuit analysis, so I would be
starting in the middle. Second, these were the 'weed' courses. There
was reams of homework, rigorously graded, but fairly difficult exams,
and I was up against a bunch of bright, over-acheiving sophmores, while
I was an old (mid-30s), lazy, engineer type. Those kids ate my lunch as
far as grades, and I found myself with a less than 3.0 GPA (a big No-No
if you are a graduate student!)

The second quarter, I found out the secret - graduate courses! I could
take take either circuits 3, or Microwave Circuits! It was my saving
grace. In the standard class, there was an emphasis on basic theory,
reams of repetitive homework, and anal grading of everything. In the
graduate course, they focused on what was really important in the
theory, gave interesting and difficult homework, but the grading was
realisting and more constructive criticism than punishment. And
finally, it was graded as a graduate course, so the typical grade was a
B not a C!


Now, I still ended up in academic probation, partially due to problems
in working with the Fields and Waves professor, but I did graduate!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The last sentence sums it up. That's all that matters. And sometimes
even that doesn't. Many of the great movers and shakers in electronics
never graduated.

 

[John Larkin]

With courses that I deemed not too relevant my motto was: B is the A of
the little guy. Whatever it took to get the degree, good enough. Guess
what, nobody ever asked to see any of this stuff except gov agencies and
those didn't care about the grades.

The Brat is at Cornell. She needs a 2.0 GPA to stay on the softball
team, and she consistantly racks up 2.1's and 2.2's. I am immensely
proud of having a kid with this level of finely calibrated skill.

John

 

[Joerg]

The Brat is at Cornell. She needs a 2.0 GPA to stay on the softball
team, and she consistantly racks up 2.1's and 2.2's. I am immensely
proud of having a kid with this level of finely calibrated skill.

My father used to say to me "You are always trying to hop onto the
caboose when the train is already leaving. Some day you'll trip and fall
off and then the train is gone."

I've never quite understood this obsession with sports at American
universities. In Europe we had none of that. When you were at a
technical school you learned engineering stuff and that's it. If you
wanted to play league-level soccer, fine, but then you had to join a
local club outside academia for that.

So, will she become president and CEO of Highlandtechnology after you
retired to the islands?

 

[John Larkin]

My father used to say to me "You are always trying to hop onto the
caboose when the train is already leaving. Some day you'll trip and fall
off and then the train is gone."

I've never quite understood this obsession with sports at American
universities. In Europe we had none of that. When you were at a
technical school you learned engineering stuff and that's it. If you
wanted to play league-level soccer, fine, but then you had to join a
local club outside academia for that.

It is sort of strange. At least Cornell doesn't have athletic
scholarships, and athletics are strictly on top of a full academic
load. US college football and basketball are a disgrace.

So, will she become president and CEO of Highlandtechnology after you
retired to the islands?

I'd love it if she was interested. Eventually I'll have to turn this
mess over to somebody, or liquidate it. Liquidation would be a waste,
because we have customers and "goodwill." and the thing could continue
to grow. Too many small businesses die because there's no provision
for succession, or because the kids get greedy and start squabbling.
I'll probably hire her when she graduates next spring, and see what
happens.

Of course, I'll need a lead technical guy too. She could maybe do the
biz/money/management stuff, but has no instincts for electronics.

Interesting, I've never met a female circuit designer. Lots of
programmers, lots of scientists, lots of managers, but no electronic
designers.

John

 

[Joerg]

John Larkin wrote:


[...]

It is sort of strange. At least Cornell doesn't have athletic
scholarships, and athletics are strictly on top of a full academic
load. US college football and basketball are a disgrace.

I've met some of the results of that. They strike it big in sports, make
money, become famous and then at 35 the joints are all worn out. So the
first career is over. "Ah, but I've got an education!" Then you deal
with people who have landed high level positions because of their
celebrity status or whatever but don't have the foggiest how to run the
new show.

I'd love it if she was interested. Eventually I'll have to turn this
mess over to somebody, or liquidate it. Liquidation would be a waste,
because we have customers and "goodwill." and the thing could continue
to grow. Too many small businesses die because there's no provision
for succession, or because the kids get greedy and start squabbling.
I'll probably hire her when she graduates next spring, and see what
happens.

Or they die because of death taxes. IIRC that's what wiped out Sam's
Town. You might remember it from drives up to Tahoe, on the right side,
Cameron Park exit. It was "the" place to stop for lunch for families
with kids and tour buses.

Of course, I'll need a lead technical guy too. She could maybe do the
biz/money/management stuff, but has no instincts for electronics.

Can you groom one of your own engineers into that direction?

Interesting, I've never met a female circuit designer. Lots of
programmers, lots of scientists, lots of managers, but no electronic
designers.

Actually, I recently did at a client. She does a lot of the designs many
other engineers wouldn't touch with a 10ft pole, including switch mode
supplies.

 

[John Larkin]

John Larkin wrote:


[...]

It is sort of strange. At least Cornell doesn't have athletic
scholarships, and athletics are strictly on top of a full academic
load. US college football and basketball are a disgrace.

I've met some of the results of that. They strike it big in sports, make
money, become famous and then at 35 the joints are all worn out. So the
first career is over. "Ah, but I've got an education!" Then you deal
with people who have landed high level positions because of their
celebrity status or whatever but don't have the foggiest how to run the
new show.

I'd love it if she was interested. Eventually I'll have to turn this
mess over to somebody, or liquidate it. Liquidation would be a waste,
because we have customers and "goodwill." and the thing could continue
to grow. Too many small businesses die because there's no provision
for succession, or because the kids get greedy and start squabbling.
I'll probably hire her when she graduates next spring, and see what
happens.

Or they die because of death taxes. IIRC that's what wiped out Sam's
Town. You might remember it from drives up to Tahoe, on the right side,
Cameron Park exit. It was "the" place to stop for lunch for families
with kids and tour buses.

The inheritance taxes are insane, and it takes a lot of bizarre,
expensive planning to dodge them, life insurance and charitable trusts
and all sorts of crazy schemes. The inheritance tax is the perfect
mechanism for killing US businesses.

Can you groom one of your own engineers into that direction?



Actually, I recently did at a client. She does a lot of the designs many
other engineers wouldn't touch with a 10ft pole, including switch mode
supplies.

Dang, I'm already married!

John

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 22:44:09 GMT, Joerg
[snip]

Or they die because of death taxes. IIRC that's what wiped out Sam's
Town. You might remember it from drives up to Tahoe, on the right side,
Cameron Park exit. It was "the" place to stop for lunch for families
with kids and tour buses.

The inheritance taxes are insane, and it takes a lot of bizarre,
expensive planning to dodge them, life insurance and charitable trusts
and all sorts of crazy schemes. The inheritance tax is the perfect
mechanism for killing US businesses.

[snip]

Of course the Democrats want to roll-back to previous rates (as in
INCREASE) the "death tax".

The real trick is to transfer as much wealth as possible to your
children BEFORE you die.

Is there ANY Democrat here (setting aside any of your pansy war
issues) that believes that Democrats are better for the economy than
Republicans?

...Jim Thompson