Ebay item??? "Hydrogen Powered 3Kw Generator - NEW"

[Richard W.]

What do you guys know about this auction?



http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2553448911&category=11771

Richard W.

 

[Richard W.]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2553448911&category=11771

"A fool and his money are soon parted"

That's was my first thought.

Richard W.

 

[William P.N. Smith]

"A fool and his money are soon parted"

Yeah, I especially like the "sold under NDA, gas generator is sealed
and copyrighted." line.

 

[Steve Spence]

They are claiming that it can generate enough electric to make enough
hydrogen to keep itself running, which is a lie. that they have a hydrogen
powered generator is no big deal, but it's not self producing. You will have
to input more energy than it produces.

 

[Steve Spence]

http://pages.ebay.com/help/contact_inline/report_listing.html

Report this obviously fraudulent listing.

 

[Steve Spence]

I prefer the simple, long lasting diesel generator, fueled by waste
vegetable oil.

Check out the FAQ at www.veggievan.org/faq

 

[Steve Cothran]

Note the "private" feedback and the low (96%) positives.
This would be enough to make me not even consider buying a
toaster from this seller.

He don't know shit about selling stuff, either. Just reading his
overbearing muck made me want to go slap him.

I've seen better written cons in comic books. Like Sea Monkeys.

 

[Bob Adkins]

They are claiming that it can generate enough electric to make enough
hydrogen to keep itself running, which is a lie. that they have a hydrogen
powered generator is no big deal, but it's not self producing. You will have
to input more energy than it produces.

Yes, it takes much more energy to crack the water than is derived from the
resulting hydrogen and oxygen. They are not claiming perpetual motion, or
even break-even. Actually, this is a separate process from power generation,
and is a technology unto itself.

They recommend 10 batteries. There must be a reason for this. It's
obviously because of low peak power output.

Bob

 

[Steve Spence]

Where do they mention additional input? It's very clear they are claiming
the process is self sustaining.

 

[Bob Adkins]

Where do they mention additional input? It's very clear they are claiming
the process is self sustaining.

"Self sustaining" is a misnomer. That's like saying a gasoline engine is
self-sustaining as long as you keep fuel in the tank. The contraption uses
energy to crack the water, and it burns the resulting H2 and O. There's
nothing mysterious or fraudulent about that unless they try to claim there's
no efficiency cost to crack the water. Even with an efficiency cost, water
is cheap, so there's no real waste.

Wonder what fraction of a watt hour it takes to crack enough water to get
one watt hour from the motor( on say the smallest generator)? If that figure
is high, it's a farce. If that figure is low, it could possibly be efficient
enough to be practical.

I have a feeling you must have that big fat battery bank well charged to
make the thing work and "self sustain", for lack of a better word.

Bob

 

[Steve Spence]

self sustain means it will not run down eventually. this system will not
keep going indefinitely. It definitely appears that they are claiming they
are self sustaining. That is wrong.

 

[daestrom]

Wonder what fraction of a watt hour it takes to crack enough water to get
one watt hour from the motor( on say the smallest generator)? If that figure
is high, it's a farce. If that figure is low, it could possibly be efficient
enough to be practical.

You're missing some basic physics. It takes *more* than one watt-hour to
crack enough water to get one watt-hour from the motor. It can *never* take
less than one watt-hour to crack enough water to get one watt-hour out of
the engine.

And that's the point a lot of folks are trying to make here. If you have a
battery with 100 watt-hours of energy in it, and you use it to crack water
into H2 and O2, you will get a certain amount of H2. Turn around and burn
that H2 in an engine that is only 30% efficient, and you get only 30
watt-hours out. The engine efficiency is limited by some very well
understood thermodynamic principles.

Why not use the 100 watt-hours of energy from the battery directly in a DC
motor, that can approach 90% efficiency and give you 90 watt-hours of
mechanical output?

daestrom

 

[Bob Adkins]

assume a high efficiency generator at 85%, the end output would be a
mere 153 watthours. Overall efficiency a mere 15.3%, and this is
assuming using all high efficiency devices.

Any efficiency above zero would be a net producer of energy, right?

I doubt any net energy at all. This being the case, I'm sure this method of
energy production would have been developed years ago. I think it's a total
scam.

Bob

 

[Bob Adkins]

Why not use the 100 watt-hours of energy from the battery directly in a DC
motor, that can approach 90% efficiency and give you 90 watt-hours of
mechanical output?

Exactly. I think the use of natural gas as an alternative in that
contraption is a smoke screen so the buyer can't sue.

Yes, it make sense that it won't work. H2O is made by a violent, energetic
process, and therefore probably takes lots of energy to break apart.

However, I have always been intrigued by solar cells cracking water and
storing the H2 and O to create energy at night or on cloudy days. I know
it's dangerous, but anything's better than lead-acid batteries!

Bob

 

[daestrom]

Exactly. I think the use of natural gas as an alternative in that
contraption is a smoke screen so the buyer can't sue.

Yes, it make sense that it won't work. H2O is made by a violent, energetic
process, and therefore probably takes lots of energy to break apart.

However, I have always been intrigued by solar cells cracking water and
storing the H2 and O to create energy at night or on cloudy days. I know
it's dangerous, but anything's better than lead-acid batteries!

Well, that would depend on what aspect of lead-acid batteries you're
referring to. They do take some maintenance, but are actually pretty
efficient overall. Quite common to get out >80% of the energy you put into
them. Not perfect, but not the worst storage.

The big issue with H2 generation/storage is how you convert it back to
something useful. In this silly H2 powered genny, the designer chose an
ICE. Heat-engines in general have some limitations on their efficiency
(i.e. Carnot efficiency). So right there the designer is suffering a
significant loss.

If you can find a high-tech fuel cell to convert the H2 back to electricity,
then you *may* be able to design a viable system. But the H2 generated must
be free of contaminants to avoid damaging the fuel cell. And some fuel
cells need pure O2, not air to react with the H2. And, as you say, storing
H2 safely is not a minor thing. The average DIY may not be up to the task
(yet).

daestrom