Easy Wiring Question

[Unique]

Can a porch light switch and a wired doorbell switch (momentary pushbutton style) share a hot wire? I'm beginning to think that the doorbell has to have its own hot because I installed the doorbell and it worked perfectly until I made a jumper wire to the porch light switch from the doorbell switch.

 

[Bluejets]

I would say definitely not .....door bell systems are low voltage in every application I have ever seen.

Trying to permanently get rid of door to door salesman are we..?
Good way to find yourself behind steel bars.

 

[dave9]

You need to better describe all parameters of these circuits, for example if the doorbell has a 24VAC feed, and what this "porch light" is exactly.

If you're trying to run some homemade low voltage porch light off the doorbell 24VAC transformer, with the light on you are probably pulling the voltage down too low since that transformer has finite current.

You can measure this with a multimeter and while you're further describing your setup, it might help to sketch a schematic of it.

 

[narkeleptk]

Can a porch light switch and a wired doorbell switch (momentary pushbutton style) share a hot wire? I'm beginning to think that the doorbell has to have its own hot because I installed the doorbell and it worked perfectly until I made a jumper wire to the porch light switch from the doorbell switch.

The doorbell is usually set up around 16VAC. Check your coat closet for a transformer.

 

[Unique]

You need to better describe all parameters of these circuits, for example if the doorbell has a 24VAC feed, and what this "porch light" is exactly.

If you're trying to run some homemade low voltage porch light off the doorbell 24VAC transformer, with the light on you are probably pulling the voltage down too low since that transformer has finite current.

You can measure this with a multimeter and while you're further describing your setup, it might help to sketch a schematic of it.

I only have 3 wires to work with and I can't tell the difference between a neutral or ground, so here it is:

 

[Unique]

I only have 3 wires to work with and I can't tell the difference between a neutral or ground, so here it is: View attachment 48707

So this configuration is fine with the doorbell by itself but when I add the porch light and then flick on the porch light switch it rejects the configuration with a buzz and spark and trips the breaker. What needs to be done to correct this?

 

[Alec_t]

Those are strange symbols for switches, but it looks as though pressing the bell switch shorts the hot to neutral or ground (either of which should trip a breaker) and pressing the light switch energises both the bell and the light.
You shouldn't be using the ground wire to carry load current.

 

[Unique]

Those are strange symbols for switches, but it looks as though pressing the bell switch shorts the hot to neutral or ground (either of which should trip a breaker) and pressing the light switch energises both the bell and the light.
You shouldn't be using the ground wire to carry load current.

How else would you complete the circuit? Doesn't every switch have a positive and negative running to it? In this case, pressing the bell switch does sound the bell for as long as I press the switch.

 

[Unique]

Those are strange symbols for switches, but it looks as though pressing the bell switch shorts the hot to neutral or ground (either of which should trip a breaker) and pressing the light switch energises both the bell and the light.
You shouldn't be using the ground wire to carry load current.

I revised the diagram to the only other way I, with very little experience, would think might work. I removed the jumper wire at the switches and instead the hot wire feeds the porch light on its way to the doorbell button. I then add a separate wire going from just the porch light to the switch:

 

[Bluejets]

I'd advise you get an electrician before you kill someone.
Your statements make it clear you have absolutely no idea what you are doing and never will.

 

[Unique]

I'd advise you get an electrician before you kill someone.
Your statements make it clear you have absolutely no idea what you are doing and never will.

I said that I don't know what I'm doing. You don't post questions here if you know what you're doing. I just needed someone knowledgeable who wanted to help to make corrections on either of the diagrams. Thanks.

EDIT: Well, the configuration in the 2nd diagram works like a charm. Zero casualties. Not bad for someone who has "absolutely no idea" what he's doing and "never will". Evidently, I might know more than you since you were unable to comment on the correct configuration in the 2nd diagram.

 

[Bluejets]

I said that I don't know what I'm doing. You don't post questions here if you know what you're doing. I just needed someone knowledgeable who wanted to help to make corrections on either of the diagrams. Thanks.

EDIT: Well, the configuration in the 2nd diagram works like a charm. Zero casualties. Not bad for someone who has "absolutely no idea" what he's doing and "never will". Evidently, I might know more than you since you were unable to comment on the correct configuration in the 2nd diagram.

Nope....wrong once again.
Been an electrical contractor for over 40 years and a qualified lecky for 50 years.
There is simply no getting through to half educated smart asses.

 

[Unique]

Well there ya go, 40 years experience as a contractor but instead of helping people with a basic wiring question, you posted a condescending response with no solution. Responding to a question with taunts of how inexperienced the OP is without offering a workable solution pretty much defeats the purpose of the forum. That you have 40 years experience makes it even worse.

 

[hevans1944]

How else would you complete the circuit? Doesn't every switch have a positive and negative running to it? In this case, pressing the bell switch does sound the bell for as long as I press the switch.

It would help us to help you if you were to up-load two snapshots showing the four terminals on the two switches: one picture for the push-button switch used to ring the doorbell, and the other picture for (presumably) the toggle switch used to turn the porch light on and off. Perhaps with the aid of those two pictures someone here could identify just what your switches are and perhaps their contact configuration. Your switch "block diagrams" show four terminals on each switch with nary a clue as to how these terminals are connected internally to each switch. Zero information there.

Both push-button doorbell switches and toggle switches for lighting are usually single-pole, single-throw, two-terminal switches. You should Google that to see exactly what it means.

As for "how else would you complete the circuit?" it appears to me that you have through trial and error found a couple of ways to do that, one of which works and one which results in arcs, sparks, perhaps a little smoke, and a tripped circuit breaker. However, I see from reading other posts made while I was composing this one, that you "solved" your problem by adding a fourth wire, as shown in post #9, to your original concept shown in post #5. This you did despite saying "I only have 3 wires to work with and I can't tell the difference between a neutral or ground." Don't you think it was a bit disingenious to change the problem from "how do I do this with only three wires?" to "look how smart I am to solve this problem by adding just one more wire"?

"Doesn't every switch have a positive and negative running to it?" No. Switches are used to interrupt or complete circuits. Whatever you think you mean by "positive" and "negative" has absolutely nothing to do with switches.

And finally...

I said that I don't know what I'm doing. You don't post questions here if you know what you're doing.

Well, at least you admit you didn't know what you were doing. So many people post questions here who firmly believe they do know what they are doing... mostly. They believe they just need a little help. In case you didn't notice, this is a "hands on" do-it-yourself hobbyist forum mostly. Most folks come here for the same reason you did: to obtain practical advice on how to solve a problem. We are happy to help with that, but we do expect a modicum of knowledge, and perhaps some experience from the poster, to allow a meaningful dialog to occur. Lacking that, I suggest you try Google first before engaging ElectronicsPoint forums.

 

[davenn]

thread locked to prevent any more verbal abuse

 

[davenn]

Doesn't every switch have a positive and negative running to it?

nope, because if it did when the switch was closed it would short circuit the supply