Do/Don't? Soldering Wire Tips Before Sticking into Terminal Block

[D Yuniskis]

nospam wrote:
[hmmm... that begs the question: what term to use
to refer to describe the "side" (direction) that you
turn *into*? E.g., what I have called "right" in
this example]
The side into the wind would be "windward" side, so the other side
would be "leeward". ;-)

wise *ss! :>

My question is serious: how do you refer to the "clockwise
side" of something? etc.

My GPS says 'Keep right'
or
'Keep left'.
Maybe that can apply here.

No. Think about it. There "reference" needs to be the body
(or the tip?) of the wire.

E.g.,

=======----
O

and

----==========
O

are both on the same "side" of the post (O).
But, will yield different results when the screw is
tightened.

 

[D Yuniskis]

Hi Keith,

I prefer to make sure there is plenty of natural flotation around, but

Yes! And, for any flotation device to be effective, they need to
be displayed -- er, um, *worn* -- prominently AT ALL TIMES! I
always seem to have a problem getting compliance on this issue...
:-(

 

[D Yuniskis]

Hi Tim,

[hmmm... that begs the question: what term to use
to refer to describe the "side" (direction) that you
turn *into*? E.g., what I have called "right" in
this example]

Angular directions are most specifically denoted by the right hand rule.
Point your thumb in the direction of the axis, and your fingers will curl
around the direction of positive rotation.

The problem then becomes specifying the 'thumb vector' consistently, but
that's a bit easier now since "into the surface" is true no matter what
direction you're looking at it (whereas the rotation is reversed if you flip
the axis!).

But you're not going to offer *that* explanation in a casual
conversation. E.g., imagine telling someone how NOT to attach
a frayed cord to a replacement power plug in casual convesation
at a party. AFAICT, you have to describe *wrapping* the wire
"trong way" and then describe how the screw's motion pushes it
out from under the screw in order for folks to remember what
you've told them. You can't just say "to the left", etc.

(of course, if you're *at* a party, chances are they'll
be too blitzed to remember, anyway! :> )

It's just one of those words that seems to be missing from the
language.

Just like the word to describe the "dance" two people do when they
approach each other (walking) and both (coincidentally) step
one way (the same way) to avoid each other. Then, simultaneously
realize they are, once again, on a collision course and *both*
step back the other way. Again realize their common error, etc.

I.e., this happens often enough that one would think we would have
a term for it (even a colloquial one!).

On the other hand, we have words like "Automatonophobia"
(sheesh! how often does *that* come up in conversation??)

 

[D from BC]

Is it ok to solder the tips of stranded wire before inserting into a
terminal block?
I like soldering the tips so that there's no wire fraying or free
strands.
But...Does the solder slowly compress after awhile and the wire gets
loose?
Sure I could perhaps a crimp on pin terminals to stick in the terminal
block.
Ex:
http://www.molex.com/pdm_docs/sd/192110001_sd.pdf
I'm afraid I'll have to buy a ridiculously priced crimping tool that'll
get used a few times and then be forgotten.

Thanks all the responses.

 

[Archimedes' Lever]

Is it ok to solder the tips of stranded wire before inserting into a
terminal block?
No.

I like soldering the tips so that there's no wire fraying or free
strands.

IF you attempt to solder just the tips, it invariably gets up into the
whole end, beyond 'just the tips'.

Once installed properly, one NEVER needs to worry about "fraying".

But...Does the solder slowly compress after awhile and the wire gets
loose?

Yes. It is referred to in the industry as "solder creep" It also
occurs with plastics.

Sure I could perhaps a crimp on pin terminals to stick in the terminal
block.

The twisted wire bundle is fin as well. Unless you are some dope that
thinks it is ok to hang weight on the wire causing a tensile force on the
terminal position. That is also a dumb practice.

Ex:
http://www.molex.com/pdm_docs/sd/192110001_sd.pdf
I'm afraid I'll have to buy a ridiculously priced crimping tool that'll
get used a few times and then be forgotten.

Ever heard of rental? You do not need to add pins. Also, IF you did
want to add pins, you could solder those on. Solder creep will not occur
in such a case.

You put up some stupid topics. Especially since they have been covered
several times here.

You should NEVER "tin" or solder fill ANY wire that is meant to be
terminated into a cinch type terminal where the connection is dependent
on the wire being compressed between two metallic elements.

The reason: Solder creep. The solution: Don't do it.

 

[Archimedes' Lever]

Hi D!
I think that if you're going to do the job, you are better off to do
it right. That means follow the manufacturer's recommendations, when
it comes to connectors of any kind.

BTW I think that many failures in electronic equipment are at the
connection between one thing and another, whether it be solder
connections, plugs that need reseating or other arrangement coming
adrift through heat cycling, corrosion, electrolytic action, blah
blah... always try to minimise such failures by making the best
possible job of all electrical connections.

amark

Not one reference to creep.

Amateur response.

 

[UpYerNose]

Better not.
It will get lose over time, and if there is a lot of current melt the terminal block.

The current doesn't do it, idiot. Solder creeps under PHYSICAL stress.
PERIOD.

 

[UpYerNose]

As others have mentioned, solder-tinning the ends is contra-indicated;
the solder will cold flow or crumble and the connection loosen.

NO. It does NOT "cold flow" Stop mixing terms used for effects of
other realms. NO, it does NOT crumble. Solder NEVER "crumbles", idiot.

It CREEPS period. Look it up, dipshit!

 

[UpYerNose]

Compare the 'springiness' of a bit of solder with a similar bit of copper
wire and why it is a bad idea is obvious (and the copper will work harden
and become even more 'springy').

No, Copper does not "become springy". What part of the meaning of the
word HARDEN do you not understand, boy?

The fucking idiots in this group are coming out of the woodwork.

 

[Archimedes' Lever]

nospam wrote:

[hmmm... that begs the question:  what term to use
to refer to describe the "side" (direction) that you
turn *into*?  E.g., what I have called "right" in
this example]

The side into the wind would be "windward" side, so the other side
would be "leeward". ;-)

This group is full of dolts and idiots.

 

[UpYerNose]

No, you're still missing the distinction! The direction the wire
*approaches* the screw from plays a role. E.g., Red Right Return
is different from Red Right Depart! :>

Idiot. His response was EXACTLY what you asked for.

 

[UpYerNose]

[email protected] wrote:
nospam wrote:
[hmmm... that begs the question: what term to use
to refer to describe the "side" (direction) that you
turn *into*? E.g., what I have called "right" in
this example]
The side into the wind would be "windward" side, so the other side
would be "leeward". ;-)
wise *ss! :>

My question is serious: how do you refer to the "clockwise
side" of something? etc.

My GPS says 'Keep right'
or
'Keep left'.
Maybe that can apply here.

No. Think about it. There "reference" needs to be the body
(or the tip?) of the wire.

E.g.,

=======----
O

and

----==========
O

are both on the same "side" of the post (O).
But, will yield different results when the screw is
tightened.

Stranded wires under screw type terminations are not EVER recommended.

That is what ring lugs are for.

 

[UpYerNose]

Depends on what it is (for me).
I personally think solder is the better choice if oxidation is a
concern.
Wires can get pretty dirty and grimey over time.

You're an idiot.

Some here have said solder might cause wire breakage in vibration
settings.

Which, if you are unaware of the process, should stay the **** out of
the discussion.

I've never experienced that, but I suppose it is possible, soldered or
not. Ferrule or not.

You are a true idiot, or so.

Oh - I generally don't bother with ferrules unless its spec.

You have no clue, much less grasp of what "spec" is.

Too much hassle for the benefit,

You have no clue what is or is not beneficial.

in my humble opinion -- though I sure
there are instances where their use is essential.

None where you would know a damned thing about it. How the **** did
you ever make it anywhere in this industry?

Again, I just don't know of any

Exactly. You do not know of ANY ANYTHING.

-- and frankly, don't work with
terminal strips _that_ often....

All the more reason why every fucking thing you have stated has ZERO
credibility.

My $ 0.02
-mpm

And absolutely worthless at that.

 

[JW]

This group is full of dolts and idiots.

I'll say.

 

[JosephKK]

Silver solder is actually a braze, and as such you will have no insulation
left on the wire after brazing it. It's made of similar metals as the wire,
so it won't cold flow, not at this temperature anyway.

Tim

Many people here would more likely be talking pb63, sn35, ag2 rather thanbraze
material.

 

[JosephKK]

If you are going to put a (bare) wire under a screw, put that
*bare* wire under the screw. Don't "tin" it.

I think there are even some safety regulations that directly
address this issue (?)

Not that i have heard of. What i am seeing is terminal blocks, switches,
and other wiring devices that are rated for use with stranded wire.

 

[Tim Williams]

Many people here would more likely be talking pb63, sn35, ag2 rather than
braze material.

Unfortuantely. That stuff is properly called silver-*bearing* solder, and
is a regular soft solder.

Tim

 

[JosephKK]

Hi John,

Hi Joe,

J.A. Legris wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
nospam wrote:
[hmmm... that begs the question: what term to use
to refer to describe the "side" (direction) that you
turn *into*? E.g., what I have called "right" in
this example]
The side into the wind would be "windward" side, so the other side
would be "leeward". ;-)
wise *ss! :>

My question is serious: how do you refer to the "clockwise
side" of something? etc.
CW to the right, CCW to the left. In 2-D algebraic geometry CW is
negative angular displacement and CCW is positive.
Yes, I know CW from CCW. :>

What I was getting at is how do you concisely (ha! me and concise,
what an idea! :> ) refer to the situation I was describing above.

I.e., you wrap a wire around a screw/post clockwise so that
tightening the screw draws the wire around the screw *with*
the screw's motion. How do you describe the "initial placement"
of said wire? I.e., it wants to be "to the left" <frown>
of the post (but left and right have no meaning in this
context; and clockwise/counterclockwise only refer to
the direction in which you *wrap* the wire -- not *place* it!)

For example, placing the wire such that tightening the
screw *frays* the individual strands is A Bad Thing.
How do you refer to the "side" of the screw that causes
this result? (without saying "wrap the wire around the post
in a clockwise manner" -- since some wires are NOT
wrapped around a post ... e.g. solid wire that under some
sorts of connectors)

No, you're still missing the distinction! The direction the wire
*approaches* the screw from plays a role. E.g., Red Right Return
is different from Red Right Depart! :>

So, you have to think in terms of the tip of the wire in
relationship to the balance of the wire. I.e., if you are standing
at the tip WITH THE REST OF THE WIRE BEHIND YOU, then your approach
to the screw would keep *it* on your right. If, OTOH, you were
standing at the tip with the balance of the wire IN FRONT of you,
then you would keep the screw on your left.

Or, from your analogy, whether the wire approaches you (standing
on the head of the screw) "head on" or creeps up on you from behind.

There are two references here -- how you refer to the wire
and how you refer to the screw (post).

Think of how you would explain this to "a guy off the street"
(not someone in s.e.d)

Since you do not like JL's description how about threadwards? It
goes around the screw the same direction the screw goes into the
terminal.

 

[GoldIntermetallicEmbrittlement]

Many people here would more likely be talking pb63, sn35, ag2 rather than braze
material.

No one in the electronics industry tins wires with silver solder (or
braze for that matter)

In other words, yet more utter stupidity.

 

[Archimedes' Lever]

Not that i have heard of. What i am seeing is terminal blocks, switches,
and other wiring devices that are rated for use with stranded wire.

Not that your petty experiences would have you ever experiencing the
industry correctly.