Diesel or Gasoline Generator on a ROOFTOP.

[RF Dude]

Anyone know of any legal obstacle to operating a small diesel or gasoline
generator (5 to 8 kW) on an apartment building or commercial high rise roof
top? This would involve taking a few gallons of fuel up the elevator too.

I'm thinking that there isn't any national legal restriction to small
quantities of fuel (especially diesel) on the roof, but could be subject to
municipal by-laws and the opinion of the Fire Chief. Comments?

RF Dude

 

[Dale Farmer]

Anyone know of any legal obstacle to operating a small diesel or gasoline
generator (5 to 8 kW) on an apartment building or commercial high rise roof
top? This would involve taking a few gallons of fuel up the elevator too.

I'm thinking that there isn't any national legal restriction to small
quantities of fuel (especially diesel) on the roof, but could be subject to
municipal by-laws and the opinion of the Fire Chief. Comments?

RF Dude

YOu don't specify where you are. There would be first the legal issues
of bringing in fuel to a commercial or residential occupancy. There might
be zoning issues, pollution control issues, fuel storage permits, spill
containment precautions, noise ordinances, landlord-tenant issues, fire
department issues, insurance company issues, and more.
There are companies that do specialize in setting up emergency
generators for buildings, but they ain't cheap. Kohler for instance.
If your building has natural gas service, a natural gas fueled generator
sidesteps a lot of the hassles of gasoline and diesel.

--Dale

 

[Vaughn]

Anyone know of any legal obstacle to operating a small diesel or gasoline
generator (5 to 8 kW) on an apartment building or commercial high rise roof
top? This would involve taking a few gallons of fuel up the elevator too.

I have seen several rooftop generator installations, mostly for cell sites
but also for building power. Avoid liquid fuels. Natural gas is the best way
to go with LP gas being a possible alternative. Check local codes.

Vaughn

 

[SQLit]

Anyone know of any legal obstacle to operating a small diesel or gasoline
generator (5 to 8 kW) on an apartment building or commercial high rise roof
top? This would involve taking a few gallons of fuel up the elevator too.

I'm thinking that there isn't any national legal restriction to small
quantities of fuel (especially diesel) on the roof, but could be subject to
municipal by-laws and the opinion of the Fire Chief. Comments?

RF Dude

Permanent or temp?

If temp situation I would doubt that there would be a problem.

 

[RF Dude]

The NG on the roof top is a natural. However, I have a roof top in a
building of the "electric era" of the 60's. No NG. Checking the various
codes for storage of fuel, it seems that gasoline is allowed to about 10
gallons, and diesel fuel as much as 25 gallons as it is a different class of
fuel not much different to various cleaners and other accelerants. The
elevator guy who knows the codes tells me there is no issue taking it up the
elevator in an approved container. Prudence would suggest no other occupant
in the elevator car for the trip up.

I'm thinking of a small diesel 7 kW generator that has 25 gallons of fuel on
board. This sort of thing can be refilled with gerry cans. The fuel
storage is within limits. But like a few have posted, these days, liability
is an issue... the "what if" scenario.

I saw a cellular company do a clever thing for this sort of thing: They
modified some 6 kW gasoline generators and deployed them on a few critical
urban roof tops to keep their microwave transport alive. They bring fuel in
a marine tank. The kind you would use for an outboard engine. Just clip
the fuel line on, prime and away it goes. When the event is over, they take
the fuel away. I guess it makes it managable if the building elevator is
not functioning and the stairs are the only way up.

I've heard some stories of two-way radio companies that have tried something
similar and the fire chief throws them off. I guess it is his call.

So no hard answers it seems.

 

[Robert Morein]

The NG on the roof top is a natural. However, I have a roof top in a
building of the "electric era" of the 60's. No NG. Checking the various
codes for storage of fuel, it seems that gasoline is allowed to about 10
gallons, and diesel fuel as much as 25 gallons as it is a different class of
fuel not much different to various cleaners and other accelerants. The
elevator guy who knows the codes tells me there is no issue taking it up the
elevator in an approved container. Prudence would suggest no other occupant
in the elevator car for the trip up.

I'm thinking of a small diesel 7 kW generator that has 25 gallons of fuel on
board. This sort of thing can be refilled with gerry cans. The fuel
storage is within limits. But like a few have posted, these days, liability
is an issue... the "what if" scenario.

the fuel catches fire, and goes where gravity takes it, you've got a rapidly
spreading fire in a high rise.
Do you want to be responsible for a huge loss of life?

I saw a cellular company do a clever thing for this sort of thing: They
modified some 6 kW gasoline generators and deployed them on a few critical
urban roof tops to keep their microwave transport alive.

Converted to propane? That would eliminate the gravity problem.

Their activities should be covered by their liability policy, which may have
required special training for these personnel, or a very high premium, or,
perhaps, even skirting the law.

Just remember: you are taking the lives of many people under the
responsibility of your wisdom and judgment.
They are not willing parties to your activities. If there is an accident,
your would have alot on your mind for the rest of your life. There is also
the possibility of a criminal charge.

 

[danny burstein]

Converted to propane? That would eliminate the gravity problem.

molecular weight of propane:

C4H10 = [(12*4) + (1*10)] = 58

molecular weight of air:
(mix of stuff, but let's just use the N and O componets)

air is 78 percent N2, 20 percent O2 (rounded off...) plus misc.

so... [0.78*(14*2)] + [0.20*(16*2)]
= 21.84 + 6.4 = 28.24

So.... propane gas is about twice as heavy as air, meaning it
will, indeed, flow into the building below. Since it's a gas
a modest amount will just blow away, but that also means iy'll
spread into nopks and crannies.

 

[Robert Morein]

In <[email protected]> "Robert Morein"

Converted to propane? That would eliminate the gravity problem.

molecular weight of propane:

C4H10 = [(12*4) + (1*10)] = 58

molecular weight of air:
(mix of stuff, but let's just use the N and O componets)

air is 78 percent N2, 20 percent O2 (rounded off...) plus misc.

so... [0.78*(14*2)] + [0.20*(16*2)]
= 21.84 + 6.4 = 28.24

So.... propane gas is about twice as heavy as air, meaning it
will, indeed, flow into the building below. Since it's a gas
a modest amount will just blow away, but that also means iy'll
spread into nopks and crannies.
--

Check. Add to the List of Bad Ideas

 

[Vaughn]

Anybody think yet of asking local Fire Marshal directly?

Well; three days ago I did write "Check local codes".

Vaughn