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Crops for biofuel?

J

John W. Hall

Greetings,
What are the best crops for biofuels?
How do corn/maize/soy stack up against each other?
Is there a perennial version of these plants?
How dependent are they on fertilizer?
Can they grow sustainably by rotation?
<curious>

Apparently oil-producing crops are currently favoured, but some places
are doing research on producing ethanol from waste, e.g. forest
product 'slash' (small branches), corn husks etc., via bacteria,
fermentation and distillation. These are less advanced than the
oil-crop route.
 
H

H. E. Taylor

Greetings,
What are the best crops for biofuels?
How do corn/maize/soy stack up against each other?
Is there a perennial version of these plants?
How dependent are they on fertilizer?
Can they grow sustainably by rotation?
<curious>
-het
 
D

Dave Gower

H. E. Taylor said:
What are the best crops for biofuels?

Anything currently being grown for other purposes. The best way to produce
biofuel is to use the huge amount of organic waste already being produced
every day i.e. unrecyclable paper, agricultural wastes, home yard waste,
restaurant scraps, factory leftovers etc.

A common mistake in people who are trying to envision a renewable energy
future is to look for "the" single magic solution. Rather, the key is to
take advantage of the immense diversity of available energy sources in the
most convenient local form.
 
M

Mike Wilcox

H. E. Taylor said:
Anything currently being grown for other purposes. The best way to produce
biofuel is to use the huge amount of organic waste already being produced
every day i.e. unrecyclable paper, agricultural wastes, home yard waste,
restaurant scraps, factory leftovers etc.


I was thinking specifically of fuels for engines. I know about
the work by Iogen generating ethanol from cellulose, but using paper etc
now for most people would involve likely involve changing from
ICEs to steam (or Stirling), yes?

I am currently constructing a scenario where there are no fossil
fuels [post coal] and nuclear is out of the picture for other reasons.
Isolated people are living on wind, solar, geothermal and biofuels,
so the question of efficiencies naturally arises. The question of
what biotech to posit for Iogen-type solutions is open as yet.

A common mistake in people who are trying to envision a renewable energy
future is to look for "the" single magic solution. Rather, the key is to
take advantage of the immense diversity of available energy sources in the
most convenient local form.


I generally agree, with the proviso that efficiencies will
be an important factor.

<regards>
-het


PS.
2004/04/21: Iogen: Iogen producing world’s first cellulose ethanol fuel
<http://www.iogen.ca/HTML2/news/04_21_2004.html>

There is a number of references on the internet that list fuel crops and
their yield. I believe with alcohol production sugar beets and Jerusalem
artichokes provided the highest yield per acre.
 
H

H. E. Taylor

Anything currently being grown for other purposes. The best way to produce
biofuel is to use the huge amount of organic waste already being produced
every day i.e. unrecyclable paper, agricultural wastes, home yard waste,
restaurant scraps, factory leftovers etc.

I was thinking specifically of fuels for engines. I know about
the work by Iogen generating ethanol from cellulose, but using paper etc
now for most people would involve likely involve changing from
ICEs to steam (or Stirling), yes?

I am currently constructing a scenario where there are no fossil
fuels [post coal] and nuclear is out of the picture for other reasons.
Isolated people are living on wind, solar, geothermal and biofuels,
so the question of efficiencies naturally arises. The question of
what biotech to posit for Iogen-type solutions is open as yet.
A common mistake in people who are trying to envision a renewable energy
future is to look for "the" single magic solution. Rather, the key is to
take advantage of the immense diversity of available energy sources in the
most convenient local form.

I generally agree, with the proviso that efficiencies will
be an important factor.

<regards>
-het


PS.
2004/04/21: Iogen: Iogen producing world’s first cellulose ethanol fuel
<http://www.iogen.ca/HTML2/news/04_21_2004.html>



--
"The universe is full of magical things patiently waiting for
our wits to grow sharper." -Eden Phillpotts

PV FAQ: http://www.autobahn.mb.ca/~het/energy/pv_faq.html
H.E. Taylor http://www.autobahn.mb.ca/~het/
 
D

Dave Gower

H. E. Taylor said:
...using paper etc now for most people would involve likely involve
changing from
ICEs to steam (or Stirling), yes?

There are a lot of possibilities of using various experimental methods to
convert cellulose to methane or alcohol, so I doubt that combustion of the
solid material will be the favoured method to get usable work. But I notice
that like me you live in the Great Frozen North. Just plain heat can be
valuable up here even if work is not extracted.
 
Q

quibbler

Greetings,
What are the best crops for biofuels?

Oil palms are some of the best, along with coconuts. Actually, some
algae have the potential of being orders of magnitude better and growing
in a far more compact environment. Here is a partial list for your
amusement.
http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html

How do corn/maize/soy stack up against each other?

As you'll find on the above list, none of these are particularly
promising. However, don't make the mistake of thinking that all biomass
has to be grown as a crop for fuel. There are many waste products which
can be turned into biomass fuels. Bagasse from sugar cane, trester from
wine production, weeds and leaves and lawn clippings, can all be turned
into useful biofuels either as ethanol or through other exotic
processes. Whey from cheese and spoiled crops and various waste streams
from food packaging plants can be converted into fuels. Animal and
human fecal matter can be converted, through supercritical water
processing, into liquid fuels with reasonably high energy content. Many
of these fuels can also be pyrolyzed or methanized in digesters to
produce compressible gases.

Is there a perennial version of these plants?

There are a huge variety of plants that could could be used for biomass
to be sure. It really depends upon the environment as to which will be
used in a particular place, but there are appropriate biomass crops for
just about any setting.
How dependent are they on fertilizer?

Many can grow in quite marginal areas. Switch grass can be grown in
marginal areas and has the advantage of stabilizing the soil against
erosion. Creosote and mesquite bushes grow in very rough and otherwise
unproductive areas and have also been proposed as candidate biomass fuel
crops. Clearly things like tumbleweeds plant themselves and tend to
grow without the need for human intervention. However, certain biomass
streams, after fuel has been extracted from them, leave residues which
still contain useful fertilizers. So fertilizers can be obtained
without fossil fuel inputs.
Can they grow sustainably by rotation?

Yes. Plants have been here substantially longer than man. There are
many sustainable things that we can do.

--
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
 
Q

quibbler

corn sucks,

I suspect that the figures about corn just include the mash made out of
the kernels. If you counted the ethanol that can now be made from the
corn stalk and the corn cob and the husks, then corn might not seem
quite so bad.

soy sucks, but not so badly. sunflower and mustard aren't bad,
neither are peanuts.

Yes and again, if you count other benefits like using the peanut shells,
or the fact that peanut plants fix nitrogen into the soil, thereby
avoiding the expense of chemical fertilizers, the crop turns out to be
better than the raw gallons per acre figure suggests.

--
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
 
D

David Brear

Sunday Times, UK today

Super-weed bracken may be answer to energy problems

IT IS one of Britain's most prolific weeds, with its creeping, fanned
leaves having taken over large swathes of countryside.
However Scotland's biggest electricity producer believes bracken, the
scourge of farmers and hill-walkers, could be a solution to the
country's growing energy needs.
ScottishPower is examining ways of using dried bracken fern as a
source of electricity. The move follows a research project at Aberdeen
University which discovered that pellets made from the weed produce
the same amount of energy as coal and more energy than other
sustainable sources such as fast-growing willow trees.
....

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,176-1358070,00.html

--
David Brear

Habitat
http://www.habitat.org.uk/news1.htm
Daily wildlife & environment news from the British Isles
 
P

Paul Victor Birke

There is a number of references on the internet that list fuel crops and
their yield. I believe with alcohol production sugar beets and Jerusalem
artichokes provided the highest yield per acre.

********** Dear Mike et al in this very good thread *****************

The yield per acre is not really the criteria!

Shouldn't we say something like the optimal yield per acre per money
invested per cycle time? Something like this to cover monies needed to
plant the crop and reap )and store and process) plus an accounting of
many times you can do this per year?

I am only a humble Engineer (not really that humblbe), therefore are
there any Economists out there who could comment on what is the best
Fooled-too-many-times Paul
 
P

Paul Victor Birke

Dear Clarence

This stuff may have a very fast turnover but may not produce high enough
eneryg. What one would like is something that is near free, can
reproduce very quickly and has good to high energy output.

Maybe this stuff and the stuff described in Scotland is a good way to go!

one man's poison another man's food (or something like that) !!!!!

all the best

Paul
 
G

gareth

Heather (The stuff from Scotland) is basically a weed, I can see large areas
of out of my window! A while ago there was mention of spraying it to kill it
or cutting it back, its quite 'woody' so I imagine it may compact quite well
to use as a fuel.

Gareth.
 
J

John W. Hall

"If all the economists in the world were laid end-to-end, they still
wouldn't reach a conclusion".
 
P

Paul Victor Birke

Do you know much to share about the Chinese Tallow Tree?
*******************

I know nothing about this tree. I am an Electrical Engineer not a Botanist!

thanks

Paul

But do tell!!
 
P

Paul Victor Birke

very good!

thank you

Paul

as Johnny Carson would say >> I did not know that!<<
 
F

flick

Arnold said:
During WWII it was used as an oil crop for diesels of that time....during
oil shortages.
The curse it has for growning so well ....is what makes it useful as a fuel
crop.
Just like algae it overruns an area in pretty short notice......

Is it possible to extract any of the oil in a home
kitchen, say?

I've got several of the dang things on my property.

flick 100785
 
A

Andy Baker

Switchgrass might fetch around $50 a ton (or a little more) but its not
going to do you much good unless it's in pellet form, which brings it to
around $100 to $120 a ton.... still cheaper than wood :)

Andy
 

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