Creationism/Intelligent Design

[kellys_eye]

I wanted to start this thread in the Twighlight Zone for the obvious reasons - and suggest it's put there anyway - but just for the sake of time-wasting discussion......

Leaving the religious aspect out of it - being of sound mind and questioning body I refuse to be drawn into theological discussion about 'divine beings' etc - what's your opinion on the ability of man (in the general sense) to create life-as-we-know-it?

Given we been through "you can't travel at over 40mph" (pre-railways), "man will never fly" (pre- Orville and Wilbur Wright) and "you can't get through the Van Allen Belt" (pre-1960's space exploration) we must accept that there is, essentially, no limit to what man CAN achieve given the right impetus and resources.

So, if we exptrapolate our present knowledge and abilities to a speculative future would man be able to create a complete environment and introduce a whole spectra of flora, fauna and 'life' to start his/her own world?

Science fiction explores man's abilities to geo-engineer lifeless worlds to create an environment that we could tolerate - even using existing technologies (I suspect) although the financial means and timescales would pose the biggest issues.

Imagine finding a planet orbitting a nearby star (say Proxima Centuri) that had the potential to be habitable but wasn't currently so.... do you reckon mankind could, say, put a 'tilt' to that planet to create seasons (assuming it didn't have one already), create a breathable atmosphere, introdcue all elements of 'life' such that, in time, it became as earth-like as we know our current surroundings to be? Then populate it?

And if this could be done by man now - or at some reasonable time in our future - and here comes the contentious part of the thread, what's to say that this hasn't already been done previously on our behalf?

Given that there is (some say) evidence that we are all living in a computer-generated environment, is the idea that we are here, now, as a result of 'intelligent design and/or creation' as crazy as it sounds?

Discus.

 

[BobK]

Theoretically, I see no reason to reject the possibility. But practically, I don't think humans will survive long enough to achieve it.

Bob

 

[hevans1944]

Engineering on the scope you conceive has been a popular science fiction meme for a long time. All it takes is energy, time, knowledge, and will. And of course the human race has to figure out how to survive its own self-destructive intentions long enough to put it all into play.

Has it been done before by another star-traveling race? Are we the product of their benevolent meddling with our environment that must have occurred millions, if not billions, of years ago? Unless such beings "come back" to collect their due (somehow), I think the conjecture impossible to verify or prove. So I accept Occam's Razor: we evolved from "star stuff" and are still evolving. The Human Race (and all living organisms) refute the Second Law of Thermodynamics... well, at least until we don't.

Short answer to your implied question: Yes, we are on the verge of being able to create life. Adding a soul may be more difficult.

 

[BobK]

Adding a soul may be more difficult.

"Play that funky music white boy..."

Bob

 

[dorke]

We are on the verge of creating pseudo-life.
By that I mean intelligent beings that can reproduce themselves and even improve from generation to generation,there is also the possibility for "eternal life" for them.
We call them robots.

In my view, being able to reproduce(i.e. manufacture "new born" ones by themselves) makes them pseudo-life beings,
they are already intelligent enough to easily beat the world champion in say chees.

I wouldn't speculate about creating biological life at a scale of humans,
but I think we are there(or almost there) in the case of viruses and bacteria.
So, by extrapolation we can get there somewhere in the far future.

 

[hevans1944]

... by extrapolation we can get there somewhere in the far future.

The far future may not be that far. Technology, building on what it already has, is now making quantum leaps and bounds, growing exponentially at an exponentially increasing rate that is virtually incomprehensible even to futurists, much less to the ordinary layman.

Some of us may have the imagination and technical background to "see" what's ahead, but it is usually as through a foggy window or a "mirror darkly." In the early 1960s my barracks room mate and I would have long, heated, arguments about the future role of electronics in automobiles. Bear in mind that we were both highly skilled and trained electronics technicians working on the latest and greatest, state-of-the-art, strike-anywhere-in-the-world, B-52H strategic nuclear bombers. Nevertheless, he couldn't believe in the future ascendancy of automobile electronics, although he was from California and should have expected it. Back then, California had a reputation for being ahead of everybody and everything worth pursuing. Sadly, not so much anymore, but that's another story... I failed to see the effect that integrated circuits, and their continual shrinkage under "Moore's Law," would have on the economics of electronics. Gee, if only I had invested a few thousand bux in Intel and MicroSoft back in the day...

I'm not betting my life on it, but I fully expect the development of something that will "clean out and renew" my clogged arteries, adding perhaps another fifty years to my life. Or not. I will also need something to wipe out that pesky cancer that appears to be slowly growing on my thyroid gland. And certainly a new home-grown (cloned) replacement heart would be nice. I probably won't be able to afford any of this "new stuff" if and when it is released for public consumption "in the far future." <sigh>

 

[BobK]

Electronics is, by far, the outlier in improvement and cost reduction.

If medical technology had taken the same path, there would be no reason to argue about the costs of care. Instead it becomes ever more costly.

And, IMHO, world politics is making negative progress.

Interesting comment about auto electronics. When I was in high school, back when mechanical fuel injection was the new wonder, I was thinking about how electronics could be revolutionary. I imagined electronics replacing all the mechanical control functions for an engine. And I looked at the ridiculous wire harnesses cars used, and imagined a single wire carrying the signals needed to control all the sensors and devices that mytiad of wires connected to. So I credit myself with the (independent) invention of the ECU and the CAN bus.

On the other hand, I thought the smartphone, like the iPhone I am now typing on, was a ridiculous idea. Who knew?

Bob

 

[dorke]

Hop,
you weren't the only person to fail to recognize the bright economical future of computers
,most of the world was, including some very smart and in the "know-how" core of things.
Look here ...even "the man" himself appears at #7.

Just now Toys- are-Us went belly-up
,because of that "tiny" damn internet sells thing,who would believe that was possible?

It happens again and again in history,part of life no doubt.
Satellites,Internet,Cell-phones,Smart phones etc.

You need to follow a "pure futuristic technological entrepreneur" ,
nowadays, someone like Elon Mask for investments in breakthroughs.
Of course he will have failures too,but the total net could be very rewording.

The grain of salt,
We have a saying that goes like this:

"From the day of the Temple's destruction the prophecy was taken from the prophets and was given to the fools..."

 

[kellys_eye]

I've seen TV shows that recalled past predictions for the future and how ridiculous some of the then-future-looking ideas became.... but there's no getting away from the (worrying?) exponential increase in technological capabilites that we are seeing.

If you are an avid modern-day sci-fi reader then you'll understand where ideas such as I propose come from and where they might go but my own thoughts turn to the biological - where changes to MAN rather than his environment might be the way we head.

Whatever ills we might create for ourselves I suggest we have the capacity to adapt ourselves to them rather than have to stop making the presumed-ills. Not in a necessarily bad way, as for example the bone weakening effects of zero gravity might be fixed by DNA modification or we immunise ourselves against environmental effects. Imagine immunity from all forms of radiation!

I reckon we have the technology to make our own planet..... whether we have the will to survive long enough to try doing it though........

 

[Minder]

One thing we may never overcome is an evolutionary trait, namely tribalism, it has been estimated that between 1.5m and 2,5m people died Just during the 20 century alone due to all human conflicts!
Factor in the ever increasing, exponential, world population and the inevitable world food shortages that are bound to occur, could be a recipe for disaster.
Sorry.
M.

 

[kellys_eye]

it has been estimated that between 1.5m and 2,5m people died Just during the 20 century alone

1.5 and 2.5 BILLION I think you mean......

I believe the worlds capacity for food production and population numbers has been vastly understated - seem to recall some recent debates about this although I can't find the specific link.

Nature seems to have its own way of making adjustments though....

 

[dorke]

In the biological world the "first transistor" was apparently developed in 2010.

The issue is a total headache regarding the moral side of things.
It has a great promise to cure diseases and genetic problems but,
It is also very frightening.

History shows very clearly that any technology will sooner or later fall in the wrong hands with possible devastating results.
e.g. Kim Jhon-un or the ayatollahs of Iran...

 

[Tha fios agaibh]

Nature seems to have its own way of making adjustments though....

True, but I wish natural selection was more of a factor.