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California power crisis - technical or political?

A

Atlas

Hi everyone,

A colleague of mine was claiming that california's power crisis isn't
actually due to a lack of generating capacity, but is actually
political/economic in nature. Any thoughts? Thanks
 
P

PeterD

Hi everyone,

A colleague of mine was claiming that california's power crisis isn't
actually due to a lack of generating capacity, but is actually
political/economic in nature. Any thoughts? Thanks

What power crisis?
 
E

Eeyore

Atlas said:
Hi everyone,

A colleague of mine was claiming that california's power crisis isn't
actually due to a lack of generating capacity, but is actually
political/economic in nature. Any thoughts? Thanks

It's the usual way.

Graham
 
E

Eeyore

Tim said:
One could easily argue that decisions to build power generation and
transmission equipment are entirely political and economic. So _any_
problem with the grid is political/economic.

But that would be sophistry.

The problem is that you folks need to harness Gerbil Power, and put
generators on all those wheels in all those cages in all those little
girls' bedrooms across CA.

OR reduce power consumption through smart technologies and higher building
standards.

Graham
 
R

Ross Herbert

:Hi everyone,
:
:A colleague of mine was claiming that california's power crisis isn't
:actually due to a lack of generating capacity, but is actually
:political/economic in nature. Any thoughts? Thanks

In a roundabout way, all energy crises have some political decision making
behind them. Usually, and possibly in the case of California, the government
might be giving in to public opposition surrounding new energy supply
infrastructure projects. Of course, delaying new energy projects will simply
increase the imperative to get them started somewhere down the track, but by
then it could be too late to prevent many businesses going belly up in the mean
time.

eg.
http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21498,21767185-951,00.html?from=public_rss
 
california at one time was like the goverment cost pluss contracts. Big WASTE of money. then things got changed goverment decided to let the ball fall where it might. immidiately people with a phone could buy and sell energy over the phone. the power crisis had begun. then some smart company decided to handle distribution as opposed to transmission. california will allways have a power thing. richest state more taxes and i guess more pay for everything . DON'T LIKE MOVE. go to nebraska and starve to death.
 
B

Bob Eld

Atlas said:
Hi everyone,

A colleague of mine was claiming that california's power crisis isn't
actually due to a lack of generating capacity, but is actually
political/economic in nature. Any thoughts? Thanks

In a word, DEREGULATION. Most of California's power woes can be traced to
the wave of deregulation that has swept American politics in the last 25
years.

It sounds so good, get government off of the backs of industry and free them
to work in the market system and all will be well. They will work to provide
the best service at the lowest rates and strive to benefit their customers.
Market forces will right everything.

Reality is somewhere else. Corporations work on greed, avarice and short
term profit motives and do what ever it takes to maximize the bottom line.
If they can shut down a power plant keeping supplies tight, they do it and
that is exactly what they did.

The wave of deregulation also caused the mortgage and banking crisis we are
now in for exactly the same reasons. Make a buck and don't give a shit how
you make it or who gets screwed. That's the American way.

Regulation is like traffic lights, annoying sometimes but absolutely
necessary for the smooth, safe, controlled flow of traffic. Without them
chaos ensues and that, simply put is what happened in California.
 
J

James Arthur

Bob said:
In a word, DEREGULATION. Most of California's power woes can be traced to
the wave of deregulation that has swept American politics in the last 25
years.

But California never deregulated. The Enron debacle resulted from
greater, stricter, more intrusive regulation.

Cheers,
James Arthur
 
Q

qrk

But California never deregulated. The Enron debacle resulted from
greater, stricter, more intrusive regulation.

Cheers,
James Arthur

As I understand it, we, the Californicators, voted to "deregulate"
(allowed to trade power on the open market, but still had caps on what
they could sell it to the public for) the power industry back in the
mid 1990s. Prices skyrocketed in San Diego a few years later. During
the power crisis a few years back, there was ample generation
capacity, but the industry said that the units were off-line for
maintenance. Energy speculation, ala Enron and Reliant, was part of
the blame. Our fine governer Davis signed some pretty horrid long term
energy agreements.

So, how much of our petroleum price increases is due to excess
trading/speculation?
 
J

James Arthur

qrk said:
As I understand it, we, the Californicators, voted to "deregulate"
(allowed to trade power on the open market,

Not an open market, but--by law--a specific, single,
state-run market.

The intent was to create a public distribution infrastructure,
then have producers / suppliers compete to deliver on it.
Consumers would thus get the benefit of providers competing
for their business.

But it was brain-dead from the start.

California's "deregulation" leading to the Enron debacle required
a) utilities to sell their generating plants and
b) become retailers of energy which
c) they were required to buy daily, on a government-created
spot market,
d) at spot prices,
e) and sell at fixed prices set by the California Public Utility
Commission.

Electricity is used the moment it's created and there's not a
lot spare to be had. The result was that Enron could buy and
withhold a small chunk and make everyone else frantic to cover
their customer's needs, causing a daily panic. Enron could
then sell to desperate buyers at a handsome profit.

Long-term supply contracts, which normally provide a great
deal of stability and predictability, were expressly
forbidden by the new law.

When their price of fuel increased ~500-1,000%, the utilities
applied to the CPUC for an emergency 20% rate increase.
Application denied. (rough numbers here, don't quote me.)

What could possibly be more regulatory or meddlesome than
forcing a company to buy at market rates, but sell at
regulated rates BELOW their cost?


Cheers,
James Arthur
 
J

JosephKK

But California never deregulated. The Enron debacle resulted from
greater, stricter, more intrusive regulation.

Cheers,
James Arthur

I find your claim extraordinary. Such claims require equivalent
backup.
 
J

JosephKK

That's why we (Arizona) passed an initiative forbidding sale of
electricity outside the state for less than the in-state rate... sock
it to the Californicators.

Likewise we control the water in the Colorado River ;-)

...Jim Thompson

Some of it, at least. So does various utility districts in
California, and Nevada. And Mexico has some water rights to the
Colorado river as well.
 
M

MooseFET

California's "deregulation" leading to the Enron debacle required
a) utilities to sell their generating plants

This is what you have to do if you are converting a government
regulated monopoly into a free market. If you don't you will have
exactly one company that controls everything from generation to
distribution. Allowing that would have left a insurmountable barrier
to entry into the market and wouldn't have been deregulation at all.
It would have just put the authority to regulate into private hands.
The results would have been a quicker disaster if it wasn't done.

Deregulating the power utility was one of the dumber ideas. Things
like the power grid more or less have to be monopolies. It is one of
the places where local optimization takes you away from the global
optimum.
 
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