Bio Diesel

[John]

Any one know if it can be used in place of #2 home heating oil?

 

[Steve Spence]

At 50% or lower concentrations, depending on ambient temperature.

Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust
http://www.green-trust.org

Contributing Editor
http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html

 

[Richard P.]

Yes it can... but there are some caveats to it depending on concentration and temperature. There is
a detailed article in Home Power Magazine #97 (October-November 2003) issue.

 

[Derek Broughton]

At 50% or lower concentrations, depending on ambient temperature.

Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust
http://www.green-trust.org

Contributing Editor
http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html

And, one would expect, the kind of bio-diesel. The traditional formulations
appear to use vegetable oils, but the stuff that's being used out here in
Nova Scotia uses fish oils (not surprisingly). And it doesn't work too
well in the city buses at -20C :-(

 

[Steve Spence]

Fish oil isn't biodiesel. Transesterified fish oil is biodiesel, and has
similar characteristics to veggie or animal tallow biodiesel.

Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust
http://www.green-trust.org

Contributing Editor
http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html

 

[Derek Broughton]

Fish oil isn't biodiesel. Transesterified fish oil is biodiesel, and has
similar characteristics to veggie or animal tallow biodiesel.

I freely admit I don't have a clue whether the fish oil has been
"transesterified" or not, (Internet sources about the specific fuel don't
say either: http://www.wilsons.ca/home_heat/biofuel.html,
http://ethanolmarketplace.com/031105_news.asp) but I find it hard to
believe you can possibly make a blanket statement that "Fish oil isn't
biodiesel". Diesel's will burn virtually anything with a decent flow and
hydrocarbon content. Any oil from renewable resources that can be burned
in a diesel qualifies as biodiesel.

It's equally hard to imagine that every bio-source doesn't have it's own
characteristics since, in our city buses they had to reformulate it for
winter use because of the problem with gelling in really low temperature.

 

[Anthony Matonak]

I freely admit I don't have a clue whether the fish oil has been
"transesterified" or not, (Internet sources about the specific fuel don't
say either: http://www.wilsons.ca/home_heat/biofuel.html,
http://ethanolmarketplace.com/031105_news.asp) but I find it hard to
believe you can possibly make a blanket statement that "Fish oil isn't
biodiesel". Diesel's will burn virtually anything with a decent flow and
hydrocarbon content. Any oil from renewable resources that can be burned
in a diesel qualifies as biodiesel.

It's equally hard to imagine that every bio-source doesn't have it's own
characteristics since, in our city buses they had to reformulate it for
winter use because of the problem with gelling in really low temperature.

As I understand it, biodiesel is different from 'an oil that burns in
a diesel engine'. The national biodiesel board even has a standard for
official biodiesel. Yes, you can burn vegetable or animal oils in a
diesel engine without turning them into biodiesel first but it is a
different fuel and is not referred to as biodiesel but something like
"straight vegetable oil" or SVO. Many companies even make retrofit kits
for this. http://www.greasecar.com/

Anthony

 

[Derek Broughton]

As I understand it, biodiesel is different from 'an oil that burns in
a diesel engine'. The national biodiesel board even has a standard for
official biodiesel. Yes, you can burn vegetable or animal oils in a
diesel engine without turning them into biodiesel first but it is a
different fuel and is not referred to as biodiesel but something like
"straight vegetable oil" or SVO. Many companies even make retrofit kits
for this. http://www.greasecar.com/

Ah. In which case I'm talking about reality, and you and Steve are talking
about American politics. afaik, there's no regulation about what you can
call biodiesel in Canada, and while I would support some regulation to
ensure somebody buying "biodiesel" got their money's worth, I'm not sure I
like the idea that somebody can say that one perfectly good choice is
biodiesel, and another is vegetable oil.

 

[Steve Spence]

Only oil/grease/fats that have been transesterified with an alcohol and
a catalyst (lye/methanol, KOH/ethanol, etc.) are qualified to be called
biodiesel. Diesel's will run on all kinds of stuff that isn't biodiesel,
including waste vegetable oil.

Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust
http://www.green-trust.org

Contributing Editor
http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html

 

[Steve Spence]

It's not just America, It's Europe as well. There has to be standards,
and specs, otherwise someone might ruin their engine or void their
warranty while traveling, thinking they bought biodiesel.


Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust
http://www.green-trust.org

Contributing Editor
http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html

 

[Morten]

I'm sure there is a chemical description that can differentiate SVO
from what most here consider BioD.

I have always read / understood BioDiesel to be the result of a socalled
trans-esterification process where you take a tri-glycerid molecule and
three alcohol molecules and a catalyst (normally NaOH or KaOH) and neds up
with a mixture of BioDiesel (an alcohol ester), glycerol (another alcohol),
some of the unreated alcohols, some un reacted tri-glycerides and of course
the catalyst. The glycerol, alcohols and catalyst are removed via various
processes (filtration, settling and washing are the most dominant) and thus
you ned ud with BioDiesel.

So BioDiesel is an mono alcohol ester. The original triglycerid (three
esters of various lengths attached to a single glycerol molecule) can come
from varois sources, vegetable oils or animals fats / oils, the major
differende is the distribution of the length of the carbon chain in the
ester, where calola or rape is arround 20 molecules long.

The origin of the fat / oil governs the properties of the BioDiesel, and the
most inportant one is the viscosity and the cloud point (the point where the
BioDiesel starts to gel / solidify.

As long as the viscosity and clound point are ok so that the injection pump
in a diesel engine can atomize the BioDiesel the engine will run on if.

In most climates (the hotter the better, higher temperature lovers the
viscosity) pretty much any vegetable oil / animal fat can be used, if the
temperature is high enough lard (solid animal fat), or coco fat (also solid)
can be succesfully transesterified and will run diesel engines...


So yes there is a 'chemical definition' of BioDiesel, its a transesterified
triglyceride...



Regards

Morten