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Best Schematic entry cad?

G

Guest

Looking for input on a good schematic entry CAD. Will be doing mostly
digital circiutry.

TIA

Wendell
 
K

Ken Smith

Looking for input on a good schematic entry CAD. Will be doing mostly
digital circiutry.

The old DOS Orcad was the best one ever created by Man. It had automatic
scrolling, block dragging and block moving. It also had a good macro
feature that you could use to quickly repeat operations. Many operations
could be repeated by just pressing the "R" key. This was ideal for
placing data and address lines. They had a clever mouse and keyboard
interface that worked well if you used one hand on the mouse and the other
to press keys. With a little practice, you could really fly through
stuff.

The newer Windows based programs claim that you can enter your schematic
just by clicking the mouse. They are correct in the same sense that you
can type War And Peace in Morse Code just by clicking. It takes many more
actions to enter the schematic than the old Orcad required.
 
L

Leon Heller

Looking for input on a good schematic entry CAD. Will be doing mostly
digital circiutry.

Pulsonix has very nice schematic entry:

http://www.pulsonix.com

It requires far fewer mouse clicks etc. than any other product I've used,
and is especially good for entering things like bus connections.

Leon
 
N

nyffeler

The old DOS Orcad was the best one ever created by Man.

For me it was awful. Especial in conjunction with the layout program.
At that time OrCAD became for me NoCAD.

The most effective ECAD Program I ever had was HiWire II from Wintek.
See www.wintek.com
It is a pity that they stopped further development, so today it is
unfortunately outdated.

Meanwhile I've learned to deal with Orcad V10. It can quite a lot, but is
also hard to use. Fortunatly I have good support from the Swiss dealer.

I gave a short try on DXP, which has a nicer appearance. However I decided
not to spend the time needed to learn it, for getting at the same level I have
now on Orcad.
 
H

Helmut Sennewald

Looking for input on a good schematic entry CAD. Will be doing mostly
digital circiutry.

TIA

Hello Wendell,
if you have to choose a schematic entry program, the decision is primarily
based on the the target application.
If you finally want to make a PCB, then you choose the PCB program and live
with the schematic entry program that comes with it.
It's nonsense to buy any schematic drawing program and then later
buy a PCB-layout program from another vendor.

Please be more specific about your target.

Best Regards,
Helmut
 
K

Ken Smith

For me it was awful.

What did you find wrong with it? I am very surprised that anyone could
find any fault with it.
Meanwhile I've learned to deal with Orcad V10.

Now, there's a truely awful program. It is hard to use and the UI is very
buggy. I briefly tried to use it. I found it near imposible to enter
information such as package sizes. It doesn't have a macro feature that
works so you have to manually go through the process over and over. To
make matters worse, the same sequence of key strokes and mouse moves does
not produce the same result each time. You have to stop and look to see
where the cursor ended up before you can start typing. When it bombed out
completely, I gave up and went back to the DOS one.
 
K

Ken Smith

Helmut Sennewald said:
If you finally want to make a PCB, then you choose the PCB program and live
with the schematic entry program that comes with it.
It's nonsense to buy any schematic drawing program and then later
buy a PCB-layout program from another vendor.

I disagree. Everyone should use DOS Orcad for schematics and PADS 2K for
the PCBs. Suggesting anything else is doing a disservice to humanity.
 
C

Chaos Master

Ken Smith stated:
I disagree. Everyone should use DOS Orcad for schematics and PADS 2K for
the PCBs. Suggesting anything else is doing a disservice to humanity.

Does DOS Orcad has a *really easy to use* symbol editor? Ideally I would
draw the package, put the pins and forget it.

(EAGLE managed to make symbol editing a very complicated task...)
--
Chaos Master®, posting from Canoas, Brazil - 29.55° S / 51.11° W

"People told me I can't dress like a fairy.
I say, I'm in a rock band and I can do what the hell I want!"
-- Amy Lee

Running on: 300MHz Pentium, 128MB RAM, 8.4GB HD, 56k modem, Windows 98
SE
Mozilla Firefox 1.0, Gravity 2.70, Wget as downloader
 
K

Ken Smith

Ken Smith stated:


Does DOS Orcad has a *really easy to use* symbol editor? Ideally I would
draw the package, put the pins and forget it.

The library editor knows about two types of parts:


(1) Block parts:
With a block part you just get a rectangular box with pins around the
outside. This is good for things like RAM chips.

(2) Graphical parts:
A graphical part is made up of lines and arcs. You can also fill areas
but there are problems with the filling method on plots so I don't use it.


There can be up to 16 parts in a package and it keeps track of the pin
numbers for each of the parts independantly. This allows you to have a
package were some pins do not appear in some of the parts. Power pins,
for example are usually onely shown on part "A".

It handles things like diodes where the pins are "A" and "C" by saying
there are "zero" parts in the package. With zero parts, the pin numbering
goes away and pin naming takes over.
 
C

Chaos Master

Ken Smith stated:
The library editor knows about two types of parts:


(1) Block parts:
With a block part you just get a rectangular box with pins around the
outside. This is good for things like RAM chips.

This is exactly what is missing from EAGLE, or I am too blind to not
find it on EAGLE.
(2) Graphical parts:
A graphical part is made up of lines and arcs. You can also fill areas
but there are problems with the filling method on plots so I don't use it.


Looks good... I will try to find DOS OrCAD in one of those 'old
software' sites.

[]s
--
Chaos Master®, posting from Canoas, Brazil - 29.55° S / 51.11° W

"People told me I can't dress like a fairy.
I say, I'm in a rock band and I can do what the hell I want!"
-- Amy Lee

Running on: 300MHz Pentium, 128MB RAM, 8.4GB HD, 56k modem, Windows 98
SE
Mozilla Firefox 1.0, Gravity 2.70, Wget as downloader
 
B

Boris Mohar

Ken Smith stated:
The library editor knows about two types of parts:


(1) Block parts:
With a block part you just get a rectangular box with pins around the
outside. This is good for things like RAM chips.

This is exactly what is missing from EAGLE, or I am too blind to not
find it on EAGLE.
(2) Graphical parts:
A graphical part is made up of lines and arcs. You can also fill areas
but there are problems with the filling method on plots so I don't use it.


Looks good... I will try to find DOS OrCAD in one of those 'old
software' sites.

[]s

Try this one.

http://www.elektroda.net/download/file952.html



Regards,

Boris Mohar

Got Knock? - see:
Viatrack Printed Circuit Designs (among other things) http://www.viatrack.ca
 
J

Joerg

Hi Ken,
The old DOS Orcad was the best one ever created by Man. It had automatic
scrolling, block dragging and block moving. It also had a good macro
feature that you could use to quickly repeat operations. Many operations
could be repeated by just pressing the "R" key. This was ideal for
placing data and address lines. They had a clever mouse and keyboard
interface that worked well if you used one hand on the mouse and the other
to press keys. With a little practice, you could really fly through
stuff.

Agree. I used DOS-Orcad for more than a decade. But I must confess that
I just bought a copy of Eagle after trying out their freebie version.
Here is why:

DOS-Orcad becomes increasingly cumbersome for me on Windows machines.
Also on some printers although it allows you to create your own driver
(not exactly my favorite task...). But most of all I like the seamless
integration of a layout package in Eagle. Really handy for hairy stuff
like RF gear or switchers when you detect that something won't fly in
the layout and you can quickly change your circuitry. Not that I do much
in layout but I want to be able to tell the layouter "this is the way I
want the switcher area arranged". Then there is the huge and growing
number of netlists it can generate, and the user language programs you
can write if you want it to do some really unusual stuff. It also allows
to mimic Orcad's nice macro scheme, such as the "R" key.

With respect to lib symbol editing DOS-Orcad wins hands down in my
opinion. Mainly because it allows block mode. Also, Eagle lacks
hierarchical sheet structures which Orcad always had. That's my biggest
gripe with Eagle. But when I made my list of pros and cons of each,
Eagle won this time. But it somehow feels like replacing that old
faithful truck that never let you down with some ritzy new vehicle.

Regards, Joerg
 
J

JeffM

I like the seamless integration of a layout package in Eagle.
Amen, brother.

With respect to lib symbol editing
DOS-Orcad wins hands down in my opinion.
Mainly because it allows block mode.
It is a bit clunky in EAGLE, but it does work.
0) If editing a device, save it and close it.
1) Open a dev (pac?) which contains the stuff you want to copy.
2) Group and copy.
3) Close the dev.
4) Open the dev (pac?) you want to edit.
5) Paste what's on the Library Editor Clipboard.
(Ah. It's a separate buffer!)
6) Save the pac.
7) Register the pac with the dev; save and close the dev.
 
C

Chaos Master

Boris Mohar stated:


GREAT! Will be downloading this soon.

[]s
--
Chaos Master®, posting from Canoas, Brazil - 29.55° S / 51.11° W

"People told me I can't dress like a fairy.
I say, I'm in a rock band and I can do what the hell I want!"
-- Amy Lee

Running on: 300MHz Pentium, 128MB RAM, 8.4GB HD, 56k modem, Windows 98
SE
Mozilla Firefox 1.0, Gravity 2.70, Wget as downloader
 
J

Joerg

Hi Jeff,
It is a bit clunky in EAGLE, but it does work.
0) If editing a device, save it and close it.
1) Open a dev (pac?) which contains the stuff you want to copy.
2) Group and copy.
3) Close the dev.
4) Open the dev (pac?) you want to edit.
5) Paste what's on the Library Editor Clipboard.
(Ah. It's a separate buffer!)
6) Save the pac.
7) Register the pac with the dev; save and close the dev.

Yes, it took me a while but I figured it out. Still, Eagle doesn't offer
block mode which suffices for most chips. Eagle forces you to do most of
it with mouse or trackball, like modeling in a mechanical CAD package.
It's ok, it's just that after half a day of doing that the lower portion
of the arm starts to hurt and then you really have to go easy because
carpal tunnel inflammation does not heal quickly. I find that even
chopping firewood is easier on my arms ;-)

In Orcad I did this mostly without a mouse. Actually, my first laptop
(that trusty old late 80's Wang) didn't have a mouse and when on the
road or rather on the train I did not carry one along.

Regards, Joerg
 
Q

qrk

I'll agree that Orcad SDT386+ is a wonderful schematic program. It is
my primary schematic editor. Folks have released new VESA video
drivers, HP Laserjet drivers, and modified Orcad utilities. You can
find these items on:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dos-orcad/files/ (obsolete group)

The new DOS Orcad group is at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OldDosOrcad/

One of the nice features of SDT is making parts in an ASCII text
editor. You can copy & paste the pin assignments from the data sheet
and edit with a text editor that supports macros like UltraEdit or
Semware's QEdit. Xilinx publishes an ASCII text file with just the
pinouts of their parts. Sure saves a load of time when doing 100+ pin
parts.
 
E

en

Looking for input on a good schematic entry CAD. Will be doing mostly
digital circiutry.

TIA
Wendell

FWIT , I just d/l Pulsonix Demo. I placed 3 = 16pin DIPs, 10 resistors.
Now try pinting. The print out is not 1:1. How the heck do I get a 1:1
print out of just these few parts?
 
B

Boris Mohar

FWIT , I just d/l Pulsonix Demo. I placed 3 = 16pin DIPs, 10 resistors.
Now try pinting. The print out is not 1:1. How the heck do I get a 1:1
print out of just these few parts?
Are you printing the schematic or layout?



Regards,

Boris Mohar

Got Knock? - see:
Viatrack Printed Circuit Designs (among other things) http://www.viatrack.ca
 
E

en

Are you printing the schematic or layout?
Regards, Boris Mohar

I wrote that I placed 3 IC's and some resistors. This means I'm placing
components
on a PCB, Printed Circuit Board. Not a schematic. A schematic is in
reference to
a circuit layout , which is not a PCB. I'm not using any netlist, I'm
making a PCB
w/o a schematic, imagine that, I don't need a schematic right now.
 
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