best schematic capture/board editor program to learn for professional world?

[Ken Smith]

Both my new Dells came with XP/SP2 installed. A number of things about
XP are stupid and annoying, but they are very reliable and seem to run
fine for weeks at a time. The Dells themselves are crap, at least as
far as packaging and ergonomics go.

Ummm..... which is it "they are very reliable" or "seem to run fine for
weeks at a time". If I had a car that only ran fine for weeks at a time,
I'd want my money back.

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Ken Smith
about 'best schematic capture/board editor program to learn for
professional', on Wed, 14 Sep 2005:

Ummm..... which is it "they are very reliable" or "seem to run fine for
weeks at a time". If I had a car that only ran fine for weeks at a
time, I'd want my money back.

In 2005, yes, but in 1945? Cars are more reliable than computers simply
because they've been around longer. It took round about 50 years to get
to 1945 level of reliability. Complain in 2030 if your computer is then
not as reliable as your car is now.

 

[Jeroen Belleman]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Ken Smith

Ummm..... which is it "they are very reliable" or "seem to run fine
for weeks at a time". If I had a car that only ran fine for weeks at
a time, I'd want my money back.

In 2005, yes, but in 1945? Cars are more reliable than computers simply
because they've been around longer. [...]

*Computers* are reliable enough. It's some *operating systems* that aren't.
And it's not that it's impossible to do better either. It makes people
come back for the next version. It makes perfect economic sense.

Jeroen Belleman

 

[Joerg]

Hello Jim,

When I last bought PC's, 3 last summer, they only offered XP. I chose
NONE for OS, and put Win2K on all three ;-)

With desktops you can often do that as you are usually free to configure
them. Graphics cards etc. With laptops and their built-in HW there comes
a point where a certain piece of HW in there just won't have any
available NT driver. Then you are stuck with XP.

One would probably be fine if, say, the modem didn't work under NT. But
for those rare cases where the ISP link goes down it's nice to be able
to dial in and transmit that critical file to the client in time.

Regards, Joerg

 

[Paul Burke]

Ken Smith


In 2005, yes, but in 1945? Cars are more reliable than computers simply
because they've been around longer.

Not to mention that a Ford Popular cost £390 in 1953, or about
three-quarters of a year's wages for a craftsman. A corresponding car
today costs about £8000 (Ford Fiesta, list price), or about a third of a
craftsman's wages.

Computers on the other hand have plummeted in price over the period
since the PC was introduced, from about half a junior engineer's annual
wages to a tolerable night out at a halfway decent restaurant (well,
slight exaggeration).

It's not surprising that quality and durability have not been priorities
under such circumstances.

Paul Burke

 

[John Woodgate]

Not to mention that a Ford Popular cost £390 in 1953, or about
three-quarters of a year's wages for a craftsman. A corresponding car
today costs about £8000 (Ford Fiesta, list price), or about a third of
a craftsman's wages.

That's because people in the First World have become almost too costly
to employ.

Computers on the other hand have plummeted in price over the period
since the PC was introduced, from about half a junior engineer's annual
wages to a tolerable night out at a halfway decent restaurant (well,
slight exaggeration).

It's not surprising that quality and durability have not been
priorities under such circumstances.

Durability probably isn't a prime requirement, in view of the rate of
innovation. But the point was well-made that the hardware is, by and
large, far more reliable than the software. I do wonder whether this is
partly due to the basic incomprehensibility of high-level languages.

 

[Robert Latest]

In 2005, yes, but in 1945? Cars are more reliable than computers simply
because they've been around longer. It took round about 50 years to get
to 1945 level of reliability. Complain in 2030 if your computer is then
not as reliable as your car is now.

The reliability of cars has been declining for quite a while due
to the increase of on-board electronic and computer systems.

robert

 

[PeteS]

<< The reliability of cars has been declining for quite a while due
to the increase of on-board electronic and computer systems. >>

I just had some new equipment installed in a very late model truck. All
system controls are electronic. Brakes, engine, gears - even the power
windows are controlled through a CAN bus. That's to say nothing of the
hydraulic systems for the trailer and so forth. That particular model
has 9 separate internal CAN busses and a gateway that I attach my
equipment onto (read only, thank you. I can live without the liability
issues).

The reason for the manufacturer (apart from the marketing hype) is easy
- the newer trucks have 2/3 less wiring, to say nothing of the fact
that the only way it can be diagnosed is with manufacturers equipment
(thus increasing their profit) and at a (usually) approved dealership.
I know there's a bill wending it's way through the US congress to force
all manufacturers to supply standard information for debug, but it's
being fought tooth and nail by the manufacturers.
That said, a fault in the onboard systems can cause major problems. I
was watching a truck being moved into a service bay (engine dead, so it
seems) that also had an air leak. The 'fail-safe' meant the brakes were
locked, and they couldn't move the vehicle until they got out the HP
air hose to keep some pressure in the system.

There *are* very stringent specs for automotive software, but whether
they are sufficient is not something I am knowledgeable on.

Cheers

PeteS

 

[Robert Latest]

On 17 Sep 2005 05:38:48 -0700,

There *are* very stringent specs for automotive software, but whether
they are sufficient is not something I am knowledgeable on.

Spare parts is a whole 'nother issue. People will get really pissed if
they have to scrap their mechanically perfect 10-year-old car only
because the computer "decided" it won't run any more due to a hardware
failure and a new chip isn't available any more. Like inkjet cartridges
"decide" nowadays that the cartridge is empty.

robert

 

[PeteS]

<< People will get really pissed if they have to scrap their
mechanically perfect 10-year-old car only because the computer
"decided" it won't run any more due to a hardware failure and a new
chip isn't available any more.>>

Couldn't agree more. That's one of the reasons the manufacturers are
fighting so hard to retain all their 'proprietary data' within their
own systems. It forces people to get a new vehicle and the tradein
value is close to zero unless the 'manufacturer's dealers' offer
something. It's awfully close to deceptive practises, in some ways.
Some years ago, the Ford Tempo (I think it was the 85 or 86 model year)
would bring up the engine warning at 30,000 miles, because Ford had
decided that the EGR valve should be changed then (nothing in the
manual about it though). Of course, the majority of people took their
cars in because they thought they had a serious problem, instead of a
non-issue.

After getting a lot of complaints and 'investigated' by the FTC, Ford
'offered' to fix the issue (and refund money) and not just put the
engine warning light on simply to get people to go into their
dealerships (and spend money) for no actual reason.

It'll be a while, but perhaps we'll see the various controllers in
vehicles become commodities - maybe, maybe not.

Cheers

PeteS

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that PeteS <[email protected]>
wrote (in <[email protected]>) about
'best schematic capture/board editor program to learn for professional',

It's awfully close to deceptive practises, in some ways.

In other ways, it's not only close to, it IS, criminal extortion. Just
like the 'company store' scam. The link between manufacturers and
dealerships has to be broken.

 

[JosephKK]

Fat chance of finding a PDF reader that works, and isn't written by
those Adobe wankers?


martin

You really need to look at the open source community. They have plenty of
PS and PDF tools. But not all of them have been ported to M$OS's.

 

[Ostry]

You really need to look at the open source community. They have plenty
of
PS and PDF tools. But not all of them have been ported to M$OS's.

Maybe Foxit Reader - just single-file executable, 2.6MB.