Maker Pro
Maker Pro

APOLOGIES TO THE GROUP

My opening post was in appropriste to the group. I did read the rules but ans an average bullheaded american, I never even considered self defenses thing as stunners as weaons, I would like to apologize to you all and humbly ask to please allow me to remain in the group. I do a lot of electronic and electrolysis as hobby. I am current on my third revision of an hho generator moved up from stainless stell to titanium for my 16 year old's first leasring car. I am having problems with the titatanium not producing as much gas bubbles and the steel did. I dont know if it is a question of amperage or if titanium is more resistant to current flow thansteel. I desperatly need thr expert insight I have seen on this forum omce again I apopolgize for not even considerering the topic I brought up first as weapon. Please except my apopologies for cultural view. I honestly was thinking defense but thats no excuse now my magnatron question was oureky geared toward construction of a portable plasma generator as the next in elector rather magnaplating to coat object in titanium nitride which very tough and bio safe which open vast diekds in bio implnt for the medical industry. Again sorry guys and gals
 
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(*steve*)

¡sǝpodᴉʇuɐ ǝɥʇ ɹɐǝɥd
Moderator
Please try not to post in all caps.

You realise that an HHO generator will consume more energy than is released when burning the hydrogen, right?

(read my sig)
 
Please try not to post in all caps.

You realise that an HHO generator will consume more energy than is released when burning the hydrogen, right?

(read my sig)
does it match or surpass gasoline engines which at best perform at 30% efficiency and send 70% of the expensive gas we pay for unused out through the exhaust pipe? I also realize that no modern power generating wind mill ever built, if it ran 24/7/365 non stop for eternity (or its framework rusted from under it) will ever generate enough energy to break even on the energy expenditure bill that was created in building it. I realize as well solar energy cells fragile nature makes them impractical because if you install a 10 cell board a one cell gets broken you don't lose 1/10th of your energy feed you lose up to 1/3 of you energy production. I had hoped through forum like this we might gather and share ideas to improve each other's ideas and help each other with or projects. I am not true hugger. I have more personal reasons to explore any avenues to get us away from petroleum and the countries we buy it from. Sorry for the cap. I type all notes I record I'm my files in caps and forget cap lock is on, It's easier for me to read and I never subscribed to the silly teen social media idea that capital letters meant screaming. Letter typed on a page are just that letter either upper or lower case. You are aware letters have no volume, inflection ore tone, and concerning oneself with such trivia burns more energy then positive input much like the wasted energy burned by HHO,
 
gasoline engines which at best perform at 30% efficiency and send 70% of the expensive gas we pay for unused out through the exhaust pipe?
Wrong.

In a modern passenger car, exactly 0% of the gasoline in the tank goes out the exhaust system.

Without qualifying your 30% efficiency number, the vast majority of the other 70% is dissipated as heat, conducted and radiated into the air around the car. Most of that is unused thermal energy from the engine, and some is due to mechanical friction. A small amount of power is lost to the kinetic energy of the exhaust gas/particle flow.

ak
 

hevans1944

Hop - AC8NS
@TERRY67:

Regardless of your OPINION that it is a "silly teen social media idea that capital letters meant screaming," there are certain customs we who post regularly on this forum try to follow. AVOIDING THE USE OF ALL CAPS WITHOUT THE INTENT TO EMPHASIZE IS ONE OF THESE CUSTOMS. It has nothing to do with shouting, although all caps is as distracting as someone shouting "FIRE!" in a crowded theater when in fact there is no fire.

And you are wrong that letters have no volume, inflection, or tone. That is why there are different fonts, case sizes, colors, bold, underlining, strike-outs, and italicized letters, just to name a few things the printing arts use to emphasize, gain attention, and promote the written word. Words themselves can convey emotion, so it is not surprising that the letters used to represent them can do so too.

As for wasted energy burned by HHO... this exists only in your imagination. The energy gained by HHO combustion is always less than the energy used to produce the HHO that is burned. This is generally true for any energy source if you examine it closely. Entropy always increases. We have a name for this type of incorrect notion here: Woo Woo Science. And there is a special forum recently devoted to it. You will notice that after a brief (or no) exchange of posts, each thread there is closed to further discussion. We don't like, or tolerate, Woo Woo Science here because it is waste of our time. Steve is spot-on with his signature line: Thermodynamics. It's not just a good idea. It's the law. There are three fundamental laws of thermodynamics. Briefly, the First Law says you can't win. The Second Law says you can't even break even. And the Third Law says you can't get out of the game. For more information visit this link.

The company I recently retired from performed filtered cathodic-arc, reactive depositions of titanium nitride thin-film coatings for a major automobile manufacturer to reduce aluminum die core-pin sticking, extending the life of the steel core pins considerably. Molten aluminum viciously attacks steel, eventually causing the core pins (used to create holes in the die-cast aluminum engine block or head) to seize as the mold is being opened. This halts production until a crew can be assembled to force the die halves apart and free the core pin, so usually the core pins are replaced before this happens. I am not aware of any alternatives to cathodic-arc reactive-deposition in vacuum that actually work, including plasma depositions, so good luck with your magnatron approach.

I have personally used a small particle accelerator for heavy-ion depositions with 1,000,000 volts (and higher) acceleration potentials at milliampere ion beam currents. Problem with that is the ions get buried beneath the surface, instead of depositing on it, because of their high energy. For what I was doing, this was desirable, but it clearly isn't the way to apply thin-film exterior coatings. We would have performed TiN (as well as other reactive combinations) coatings on medical devices, but our machine simply lacked the throughput necessary, nor did it possess a multi-axis-orientation part-holder to ensure a uniform coating of a complicated medical appliance, such as a ball-and-socket knee replacement.

Finally, allow me to welcome you to Electronics Point. Apologies to the group accepted.
 
Wrong.

In a modern passenger car, exactly 0% of the gasoline in the tank goes out the exhaust system.

Without qualifying your 30% efficiency number, the vast majority of the other 70% is dissipated as heat, conducted and radiated into the air around the car. Most of that is unused thermal energy from the engine, and some is due to mechanical friction. A small amount of power is lost to the kinetic energy of the exhaust gas/particle flow.

ak


Remember some energy is converted into radiant sound as well. The engine is not quiet, take off the mufflers the sound has to be produced from energy.

As to the point of gas out of the mufflers. There are many carbureted engines so inefficient, the stoich ratio set so rich to allow for combustion that they can quite literally expel unburned hydrocarbons out of the tailpipe. Most notably air cooled engines, VW and motorcycles like shovelheads and older HD engines are good examples, the shovelhead with the off-center plug in the hemi is a good example of an engine set up at around 13.5:1, way rich, but normal for operation, with such a poorly designed combustion chamber
 
The production and use of HHO will obviously take energy but the hydrogen may alter the combusion of the main fuel, either increasing or reducing the engine efficiency. I have not seen data on this.

NEW PARAGRAPH:)
There have been sugestions of adding hydrogen to domestic methane gas supplies but there is a limit due to the change of the flame front speed. As always, some careful experimentation is required.
 
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