Any pcb layout programs allow you to import jpeg image as background?

[joe]

Why would I want to do that you ask? Well, I want to create a pcb
board from artwork in magazines (and modify them). It would help
greatly if I scanned the artwork, then import it as a background image
to help me line up the traces and parts. My layout program can't do
it, and I can't seem to find a demo of a layout program that gives
that option.

joe

 

[Leon Heller]

Why would I want to do that you ask? Well, I want to create a pcb
board from artwork in magazines (and modify them). It would help
greatly if I scanned the artwork, then import it as a background image
to help me line up the traces and parts. My layout program can't do
it, and I can't seem to find a demo of a layout program that gives
that option.

You won't find a PCB layout program that will do this. The best they can do
(some of them) is import a Gerber file that may then be edited.

Leon

 

[Don Lancaster]

Why would I want to do that you ask? Well, I want to create a pcb
board from artwork in magazines (and modify them). It would help
greatly if I scanned the artwork, then import it as a background image
to help me line up the traces and parts. My layout program can't do
it, and I can't seem to find a demo of a layout program that gives
that option.

joe

Adobe Streamline?
--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
voice: (928)428-4073 email: [email protected] fax 847-574-1462

Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

 

[DarkMatter]

Why would I want to do that you ask? Well, I want to create a pcb
board from artwork in magazines (and modify them). It would help
greatly if I scanned the artwork, then import it as a background image
to help me line up the traces and parts. My layout program can't do
it, and I can't seem to find a demo of a layout program that gives
that option.

joe

PCB layouts are made from schematics, and PCB layout software is
keyed toward that end. You will not find ANY package that takes line
art bitmaps, and makes layouts from them. It is a silly concept.

If you want to copy a PCB from a mag, get a REAL layout package ,
and place the part package pads or vias, and draw the traces. The
experience from that practice alone is much more valuable than taking
some photo layout and moving pads around to specific pad centers for a
chip layout. IN fact, it sounds like it would take much longer than
standard throw it down, and tie the pins together layouts.

The best package for hand layout of 6 layers or less IMO, is called
Tango PCB. It may even do 8 layers.. I have never needed to know.

It has limited printing capability, but is a VERY precise layout
package. It is also out of "print", as in not available, and not
supported. I wish there was a Linux hack of it or something.

Anyway, I don't think that you\ll find what you are looking for, and
that you'd get more meaningful experience from laying out yourself
from the picture even, than some "import" feature. It really is quite
easy.

 

[joe]

You won't find a PCB layout program that will do this. The best they can do
(some of them) is import a Gerber file that may then be edited.

Leon

But I see pcb boards with graphics on them all the time, fancy logos,
pictures etc. How do they do that? They must be importing some type
of image... bmp, gif or whatever on the silkscreen layer. Mind you, I
will be using the jpeg image only as a guide. The layout itself will
be created using the standard manual pick and place and routing
features of the layout program. When done, the jpeg (i.e., silkscreen
image) will be deleted.

 

[nospam]

Why would I want to do that you ask? Well, I want to create a pcb
board from artwork in magazines (and modify them). It would help
greatly if I scanned the artwork, then import it as a background image
to help me line up the traces and parts.

I am not aware of any PCB CAD which allows this.

An alternative which most will support is importing the image as PCB
primitives on spare layers which can be deleted after 'tracing'.

There is a free tool here

http://www.wburrows.demon.co.uk/softsoft/wintopo/index-free.htm

which claims to convert various bit mapped graphics formats to various
vector formats including Autocad DXF.

So maybe you are looking for a PCB package which supports DXF import. Or
maybe you can find a gerber tool that will import DXF and export gerber.

I am sure it can be done, I am also pretty sure it will be troublesome
(file format conversion and import/export seem to be universally flakey).

 

[Active8]

I am not aware of any PCB CAD which allows this.

An alternative which most will support is importing the image as PCB
primitives on spare layers which can be deleted after 'tracing'.

There is a free tool here

http://www.wburrows.demon.co.uk/softsoft/wintopo/index-free.htm

which claims to convert various bit mapped graphics formats to various
vector formats including Autocad DXF.

thanks for the link. i'll check it out.

dxf is what i was thinking, but i couldn't do it since my dxf file is of
a 3D design.

Autocad has an optional package called Overlay which is used to import
things like aerial photos or map images into Autocad. saved as a dxf
file, you could import it into a layout program, perhaps.

mike

 

[Roy Battell]

Why would I want to do that you ask? Well, I want to create a pcb
board from artwork in magazines (and modify them). It would help
greatly if I scanned the artwork, then import it as a background image
to help me line up the traces and parts. My layout program can't do
it, and I can't seem to find a demo of a layout program that gives
that option.

joe

Vutrax has a free add-on option for the Windows version that can
convert line drawings Windows Bitmap format to Vutrax format vectors
for import into any Vutrax Schematic, PCB or general diagram.
It on the web site in [Vutrax Interfaces] in the [Downloads] section
and is called 'Bitmap to Vutrax Vector Converter'.
You will have to use Paintshop Pro or similar to prepare your
image as a monochrome bitmap.
If you move the imported image onto a convenient spare layer you can
use it as a 'ghost' for your real artwork.

Vutrax is free up to 256 pins (The ghost image not counting) at
either of
http://www.vutrax.co.uk (Main UK site for Vutrax CAD)
http://www.protonique.com/vutrax (Central Europe Mirror)

 

[Active8]

thanks for the link. i'll check it out.

that works well. vectorized an image to dxf that opened in layout. all
you have to do is modify the ini files to get it on the right layer.

wow. i thought cd business cards were cool. but aside from simple images
on the board, in a place where they're not obscured by parts, big deal.
good way to copy artwork, though. too bad capture doesn't import dxf. it
would beat having to have a printout. you could just do a side by side
on a large sheet, delete the vector image, and reduce the drawing size.

tnx again,
mike

 

[Dana Raymond]

An interesting thought came to mind. Are you trying to make it easier to
copy an existing PCB by 'redrawing' it? Drawing over the background with new
primitives?

Thats a clever way to import a PCB into a new layout package, but is
unlikely to work for anything other than the smallest PCBs with the loosest
routing rules, due to the limitation of graphic file size and resolution.

Good example of lateral (instead of linear) thinking though!

Dana Frank Raymond

 

[Active8]

An interesting thought came to mind. Are you trying to make it easier to
copy an existing PCB by 'redrawing' it? Drawing over the background with new
primitives?

Thats a clever way to import a PCB into a new layout package, but is
unlikely to work for anything other than the smallest PCBs with the loosest
routing rules, due to the limitation of graphic file size and resolution.

yeah. i did a web page background like that. took a picture of a
Trilithic Tricorder SLM and drew an outline on a separate layer in PSP.

but he doesn't have to do it 1:1 ... if he sets the grid and snap
options right and uses good parts. the image would just be used as a
reference which might be easier than looking back and forth from
magazine to screen.

mike

 

[Frank Bemelman]

An interesting thought came to mind. Are you trying to make it easier to
copy an existing PCB by 'redrawing' it? Drawing over the background with new
primitives?

Thats a clever way to import a PCB into a new layout package, but is
unlikely to work for anything other than the smallest PCBs with the loosest
routing rules, due to the limitation of graphic file size and resolution.

Good example of lateral (instead of linear) thinking though!

Well, for the few old PCB's I have ever imported to Protel, I simply
re-entered the entire schematic, and did a new layout, copying it
from the old one, just by looking at it. Nothing bigger than a
two-layer 6" x 10", and a pretty boring job.

 

[DarkMatter]

Define "precise", compared to the generic layout parameters ? Does it
handle 0.0001" accuracy or something?

We do 0402 SMD layouts with it all the time.

 

[joe]

Pantheon does it.

How, which command?

 

[John Larkin]

Circad has a "reverse engineering" mode which lets you import a BMP file as
a background that you can trace over while doing your layout. There are
program features that let you scale the BMP image appropriately on both
axis.

Info is available at www.holophase.com

Funny, I could almost swear that somebody recently said...

"PCB layouts are made from schematics, and PCB layout software is
keyed toward that end. You will not find ANY package that takes line
art bitmaps, and makes layouts from them. It is a silly concept."

John

 

[DJ Delorie]

We do 0402 SMD layouts with it all the time.

Pardon my not being impressed, but, so what? They're still far bigger
than the one mil resolution of even cheap layout programs.

My original question was: what is different about that layout program
that makes it "more precise" to you?

 

[DJ Delorie]

It is not practical, because the scales are lost, and part
registration relies on accurate layout scales.

I assumed he would be pulling part footprints from the standard
library, and using the photo to help him manually run the traces to
the right pins. I see nothing impractical about it.

 

[Active8]

We use PADS, and it allows DXFs to be imported;

as i suggested in my other post(s).

all our logos and
stuff are gerbered directly while still in PADS. I think it may do
others, too. One of my boards had a color image of my layout guy's
girlfriend (tastefully clad, nothing risque) embedded about 12 times
deep... we never figured how it managed to get into the board...
probably a side effect of PADS' notoriously buggy OLE implementation.

how many colors? i took an image and just for a quick test, opened it in
WinTopo, Vectorized it, and saved as dxf. then i just imported it into
Layout.

brs,
mike

 

[Active8]

as i suggested in my other post(s).


how many colors? i took an image and just for a quick test, opened it in
WinTopo, Vectorized it, and saved as dxf. then i just imported it into
Layout.

but it vectorized as 1 color because i didn't take the time to play with
WinTopo.

embedded 12 times? huh? 12 layers?

now think this through... if you have a multi-color image, you need 1
screen layer for each color. alternately you could use one of those
whatever the exact name is... ink jet things they use to label stuff
like the extruded plastic sheets they make at a local plant here.

brs,
mike

 

[Fred Abse]

Funny, I could almost swear that somebody recently said...

"PCB layouts are made from schematics, and PCB layout software is keyed
toward that end. You will not find ANY package that takes line art
bitmaps, and makes layouts from them. It is a silly concept."

John

Tracing over a background image isn't quite the same as making a layout
from a bitmap in software.