:Hi Ross,
:
:Ross Herbert wrote:
:
For some reason, my news server (optusnet) has dropped a few of your
osts, and I only see this reply, but I was able to post your reply in
:from google groups):
:
:> I fail to see how they can both supply the equioment AND carry out the
:> installation for less than the $8K rebate plus RECS.
:>
:> If you wanted to install a similar quality system to the Sharp 1kW system
:> yourself then look at the costs involved;
:>
:> PV panels Sharp 24V 175W NTR5E3E cost $1,550 each
:>
http://www.energymatters.com.au/sharp-solar-panel-175watt-24volt-mono...
:> and a Fronius IG15 inverter costs $3,074
:>
http://www.energymatters.com.au/fronius-1500watt-grid-connect-inverte...
:>
:> These 2 items alone account for $12,374 alone for a 1kW system so even if you
:> receive $9000 in rebate and RECS you still have to find $3,374 PLUS
extraneous
:> materials such as roof frame, isolator CB's, cabling etc, plus contractor
:> labour. Remember, If you don't use a contractor who is certified to install
:> solar PV systems you don't get the $8K rebate, so that expense must be on top
of
:> all other items.
:
:I think it is inappropriate to try and compare your high-end
:Sharp/Fronius system to NuEnergy. They are not claiming to supply anyone
:with Sharp/Fronius, so a price comparison doesn't mean much.
:
:They clearly state that the inverter is a Sunny Boy 1100W, and their
anels are "CEEG". See this link for CEEG:
:
http://www.ceegsst.com/English/Aboutus.asp
:
:I wasn't too sure about the brand of panels, so I did a bit of googling
:and reading, and it's true that this brand of panels is fairly new on
:the market (i.e not well known), but one of their technicians/directors
:is an associate professor in PV from UNSW. You can see his profile here:
:
http://www.pv.unsw.edu.au/Staff/jianhuazhao.asp
:
:These CEEG panels are much cheaper than Sharp, and obviously they are
aying a bulk-purchase price, which will be cheaper than the prices you
:see on typical places such as energymatters, who are trying to make a
rofit when they sell panels to end users.
:
:According to an active Whirlpool forum, they might be paying down to
:$800/panel or less.. (Not vouching for its authenticity though).
:
:> Even using a Sunny Boy 1100W inverter instead of a Fronius IG15 will set you
:> back around $2,360
:>
http://www.energymatters.com.au/sma-sunny-boy-1100watt-grid-connect-i...
:
:I think that's a typical end user price with big mark up. If you buy
:these in bulk and at wholesale, they are much cheaper. How can
:energymatters make any money if they didn't add a mark up for themselves?
:
:> It is impossible for Nuenergy to provide and install anything approaching the
:> quality of the Sharp 1kW system (or even the Sunny Boy/Uni-Solar) for the
cost
:> of the $8K rebate plus RECS while still making a profit. It has to be a scam.
:
:You're correct that it is impossible for a company to supply something
:without making a profit. Especially with solar, since there is not much
:scope for "repeated business". Once you get your system, you might not
:deal with them again for a long time. Therefore they must be able to
:make a profit (or be a scam). Note that NuEnergy aren't the only ones, I
:just got pointed to:
http://www.statesolarservices.com.au/index.php who
:have also started to offer a low cost (i.e almost free) solar system to
:those that have the rebate. They do use the lower cost Latronics
:inverter, and their panels are "Fullgreen Solar" (taken from their FAQ).
:
:There are either a great amount of scammers starting to appear, or due
:to a bulk-purchasing and the perceived rush for solar rebates, a number
f companies have been able to secure large amounts of panels and
:inverters at low cost. I also heard that Sunny boy will soon discontinue
:their 1100W inverter for a newer model, which supports the theory of
:cheaper bulk purchases, as they may be clearing them.
:
:Regarding NuEnergy as a company, I have heard (but not verified) that
:they have been in business for over 20 years, and that their new CEO has
:a decent track record. They're also members of the "Clean Energy
:Council", which apparently charges a fee every year for
:membership/approval, so they don't really strike me as a backyard
peration/scam.
:
:It's also worth mentioning that a lot of smaller installers are up in
:arms at the appearance of low cost PV systems (via a rebate) since they
:can't really compete with large companies and their large buying power.
:Understandably they are biased, and will spread all sorts of
:information, some of which may be untrue, but they are trying to protect
:their market of course. You wrote yourself that you hadn't looked at
:their site, but had been in discussion with someone, is he the person
:that suggested that they use "cheap chinese inverters of unknown
edigree"? (This was untrue).
:
espite all this, they might still be a scam, it's a tough call.. (Not
:everyone can afford a high grade system, certainly not my parents).
:
:Regards,
:
:Ross..
After what you have discovered I have to admit that it seems possible through
bulk purchase and using low cost Chinese panels it may be possible to get down
to a price approaching $2000 (or even less as for Nuenergy) out of pocket
expense for a 1kW system.
I did take a look at the free offer on Nuenergy site and there is one statement
which I think may be misleading. It says;
"Essentially, the householder simply agrees that the rebate will be paid to NU
Energy."
Now if Nuenergy gets the business they hope for it would not be unreasonable for
them to be installing say ten 1kW systems per week. It takes about 6 weeks
before the federal government comes good with the $8K rebate. If a purchaser has
a system installed for no money out of his pocket, as inferred by the Nuenergy
free offer statement, this means that the supplier (Nuenergy) must carry the $8K
debt on each system installed for up to 6 weeks. Now 10 x 6 = 60 systems, 60 x
$8K = $480,000. Therefore, Nuenergy would have to carry nearly half-a-million
dollars worth of overhead debt before starting to receive any $8K rebates back
from the government for the first week of installations. I doubt very much that
Nuenergy would be prepared to be so magnanimous. I would think that Nuenergy, as
do most other suppliers, would insist on the customer paying the actual out of
pocket expenses (say $8K) at completion of the installation so that the customer
is the one to carry the debt until the government pays the rebate back to him.
Of course I may be wrong (again), but a company carrying this sort of debt while
waiting for the government to pay the rebates sounds a bit far fetched to me.
