Maker Pro
Maker Pro

1980 Soviet Radio Cassette amplifier problem.

I believe that you set R18 to get half the supply voltage at the emitters of V9 and V10 but I think you needlessly twiddled it afterwards so messed up the setting. It is not too critical, within 0.1V is plenty good enough.
The only change that I did to R18 is to move it a little so it can have half the voltage between the emitters. from 4V to 4.33V.

R38 needs to be set to give a reasonable standing current, measured from the battery. I think you twiddled this to modify V8 and V9 voltages - wrong.. The standing current should be recommended in the instructions but could be 10mA for a battery power supply and up to 100mA for mains. If you cannot find a value, then set to 10mA to keep the heat down.

Firstly I tried to set this to get half the voltage, but adjusting R38 did very very little to nothing to the voltage. So I adjusted it again to get it to the factory setting (I made a little mark before adjusting it for the same time). I noticed that in one way, the audio would get choppier, not distorted, and the other way wouldn't do anything.

but could be 10mA for a battery power supply and up to 100mA for mains

10ma for idling? I got like 60-70ma but with the light bulbs switched on (15-20ma each) and with volume to like 50-60% (and lights on) I got like 100-120ma on batteries. I need to do these tests again, this is from what I remembered. I'll look on the service manuals for the current consumption on mains/batteries.

Measure the supply current and the supply voltage when distortion commences. Do not strain the amplifier by running into extreme distortion. Treat it gently, give it some TLC (tender loving care).

Will do tomorrow, after I get the new replacement pair.
Any small transistor should do for V9 (npn) and V10 (pnp).
Any? Maybe for testing. I need to get an npn transistor with similar ratings and a complimentary pnp replacement.
Like the pairs:
NPN/PNP
BD137/BD138
BD139/BD140
BD237/BD238

EDIT: I made the schematic pdf into word then translated it in english.

"The current consumed by the radio, in the absence of signal, no more than 25mA. Operability is retained while reducing the power source voltage of 6.3 V.

Size 417X240x106 mm. Mass 5 kg.
You can view the whole document without downloading it here:
https://www.docdroid.net/xRrdC2Q/readruen.docx
It is kinda garbage English but that's what google translate offers
 
Sir Richard9025 . . . .

Where my antique olde tyme tractor go..o..o..o..o.. ?
And what is the new photo being of ?******

All the tests that I do are battery-powered. I removed the power supply and replaced the open capacitors (it had one open capacitor and the PSU wouldn't work) . Now it outputs 9,01 volts but I don't use it, it stays on the shelf until the radio works on batteries.

I'm not having the whole units schematic to evaluate . . . .but . . . ..
I do see that the power outputs are being hefty "Motorola wannabes" in their distinct cases.

How about placing DVM across the battery to test its voltage and keep it there and then take a look at the voltage
to check it and then run up the volume until the distortion is onsetting in full force and then see how much the voltage being is while playing at that distorted condition, and if the voltage is swinging in unison with the loading being presented to it.

If you have an analog meter it would be the PREFERRED metering medium. . . .digital is too slow responding.

Thassssit . . . . .

******

And IT certainly looks what I used to "harvest" used 6SN7's galore from , plus some 6SJ7s, 6SA7s, 6AC7s, 6V6's and 6L6's . Which were also much used radio and HAM tubes back in that 1948-50 time frame. The ENIAC and the constant preventative maintenance that it required. My fingers and thumbs still have " heat calluses" that let me handle 120VAC . . . without feeling UNLESS . . .they are wet and / or sweaty. Conditions become normal then.

Addenda . . . . just now caught your line with this on it.
https://www.docdroid.net/xRrdC2Q/readruen.docx

73's de Edd
.....
 
Last edited:
Where my antique olde tyme tractor go..o..o..o..o.. ?
It is temporarily replaced by ENIAC ;)

If you have an analog meter it would be the PREFERRED metering medium

Oh, this reminded me of something!
I present you the "Unbreakable brick":

IMG_20180305_185542.jpg
I call it the unbreakable brick, because this communist Romanian meter not only weights like a brick but also 30% of its components are burned, missing buttons, has been thrown on the ground dozens of times and I didn't know it worked until I read your reply and I just put one battery in it to see if it does anything.

Some images that made me think (wrongly) that this meter was completely destroyed:
It is a little bit off, I'll calibrate it once I use it.

I'm not having the whole units schematic to evaluate . . . .but . . . ..
We'll talk about the power supply, the cassette deck, and the conversion to the currently used CCIR FM radio after the amplifier is in good working condition.

How about placing DVM across the battery to test its voltage and keep it there and then take a look at the voltage
to check it and then run up the volume until the distortion is onsetting in full force and then see how much the voltage being is while playing at that distorted condition, and if the voltage is swinging in unison with the loading being presented to it.

I can't test this now because I pulled out T10 and T9, from the PCB, here's why:
IMG_20180305_181159.jpg

You got it, So here is what I bought as replacements for the transistors:

x.jpg
For the final output transistors, T9 and T10 (KT814A and KT815A) what pair should I use? The BD237/BD238 or the BD135-10/BD136-10?
For the KT315B and the KT3017D I picked the 2N3904 respectively the BC557B, that I think are good replacements, what do you say?
 
Little edit, I actually bought a pair of BD139-10/BD140-10, not BD135-10/BD136-10, they have the exact same specs (only the maximum voltages are different, no problem).

So, I replaced VT10 with a BD139-10 and VT9 with a BD140-10
Then I connected the mavo analog meter (for fluctuations) and my digital meter (for exact numbers) in parallel with the 9V batteries that are also connected to the radio (they are 6 D cells, each 1,5v so 9V total).

MEASUREMENTS:

with the radio completely turned off --- 9,03 VDC (electromotive force)
with the radio turned on, but at minimum volume (no noise from the speaker) --- 8.77 VDC
with the radio turned on, but at 50% volume: 8.77 VDC

Now, what about over 50%? I think this is what you wanted to hear.

Over 50% volume, the distortion appears and guess what, the voltage is dropping.
At 75%, the background illumination lights start flickering, they aren't constant anymore. The analog meter needle drops when someone is pronouncing a word and increases when there are no sounds being transmitted on the radio podcast (pauses between the words).
At max volume, the effect is so extreme that the light bulbs completely turn off when someone is speaking and turn on when there is silence, and the needle goes to a peak minimum voltage (like 7 volts).

and if the voltage is swinging in unison with the loading being presented to it.
Yup, this is the shortest way to explain what is happening at over half the volume.

These tests are not on a little 9V battery, are on 6 big D cells connected in series. Actually, I only removed the radio's original back casing and put the batteries in it, and then connected the terminals to the radio.
The back casing: (I put the batteries in the red square. When disassembled, the back casing disconnects nicely from the front casing)
Russian-Soviet-USSR-Vintage-VEF-SIGMA-260-2-CASSETTEN-_1.jpg
 
Last edited:
How about connecting a 0.1 ufd cap in series with a10 ohm resistor and connect them between gnd and the emitter pair side of the 470 ufd electrolytic. Then see how the higher volume responds ?
 
How about connecting a 0.1 ufd cap in series with a10 ohm resistor and connect them between gnd and the emitter pair side of the 470 ufd electrolytic. Then see how the higher volume responds ?

Did what you said aaand completely nothing, connecting one lead to ground and the other one to the positive side of C35 does absolutely nothing, just a little pock, but that is normal when connecting anything to the amplifier.0.1ufd.jpg

I also measured the current to see if it is ok: (tests are done on battery, of course)
First I measured how many mA the DC light bulbs consume, and I got 35mA
Then the tests:
At 15% volume, lights switched off, on a relatively strong radio station: 21 mA (56ma with bulbs switched on)
At 50% volume, lights switched off, on a relatively strong radio station: 60 mA
At 75% volume, lights switched off, on a relatively strong radio station: 130 mA

At 100% I didn't measure, but I'm sure that, with the light bulbs powered on, it goes over 200mA, the maximum amount that the power supply can offer, so definitely something's wrong.
 
Oh, I think that I found something.
I looked at the measurements above and wondered, what if I adjust R38 again?

Adjusting R38 does a very very very significant change on the current draw, and very little the loudness and distortion. In one way, it increases the current, the volume and of course, the distortion. In the other way, the current drastically decreases, the sound gets a little quieter and clearer, and the distortion gets better, but if I go too much, the audio gets choppy and not as clear.
How can I properly align R38? It does a so significant change to the current, that from 21 mA current at 15% volume, I can get it to only 8 mA.
I can't just "adjust for no distortion at high volume" because at any adjustment, the volume will sound very distorted at high volume (in comparison with my other radio receivers)
Many thanks!
 
Last edited:
Sir Richard9025 . . . . .


The last test given was to see how the unit was operating after those two filter components were
subbed in and a max volme test on the unit..
Since this is being a single ended supply design and not a dual polarity supply it is usually not
a problem of your C38 and C35 filters of having an ESR factor and not adequately filtering off
high audio frequencies. Plus, I gave full credit for new capacitorsnow sitting those slots.
With high ESR presence parasitic ultrasonic oscillation can occur and both distort / modulate the audio waveform and thereby additionally cause an inordanite increase in current consumption due to the high waveform duty cycle with all of those mixed in high frequencies.
You usually only see this HF circuitry used on the output stages of differential output stages or modular IC output stages. So you say . . . .No correction found . . . . . .

I do see one error on this schematic, but hope that it is only being on the "snippet" that is shown just above, and that you do not now have it incorporated within your circuitry, as it would have to have been a deliberate add on..
Look at the 9VDC power input and you see it being routed to 4 connections:
  • The R27-30 resistor junction
  • The emitter of V9
  • The Positive of C36 electrolytic
  • The junction of the - of C35 and the speaker +
The last line / wire has a round connection node on it, but a check of the full schematic will show that line to actually be an outer border line, defining the circuitry that is being within the A8 board of the set.
Therefore there is no connecting wire and hope that you have not put one in circuit.

BTW do you still have the original KT315 and KT3107 driver transistors ?

73's de Edd
.....
 
do see one error on this schematic, but hope that it is only being on the "snippet" that is shown just above, and that you do not now have it incorporated within your circuitry, as it would have to have been a deliberate add on..
Look at the 9VDC power input and you see it being routed to 4 connections:
  • The R27-30 resistor junction
  • The emitter of V9
  • The Positive of C36 electrolytic
  • The junction of the - of C35 and the speaker +
The last line/wire has a round connection node on it, but a check of the full schematic will show that line to actually be an outer border line, defining the circuitry that is being within the A8 board of the set.
Therefore there is no connecting wire and hope that you have not put one in circuit.

That line shows that the circuit represents the A8 board, it has no electrical use. I forgot to delete it when I made the snippet.

The last test given was to see how the unit was operating after those two filter components were
subbed in and a max volme test on the unit..
Since this is being a single ended supply design and not a dual polarity supply it is usually not
a problem of your C38 and C35 filters of having an ESR factor and not adequately filtering off
high audio frequencies. Plus, I gave full credit for new capacitorsnow sitting those slots.
With high ESR presence parasitic ultrasonic oscillation can occur and both distort / modulate the audio waveform and thereby additionally cause an inordanite increase in current consumption due to the high waveform duty cycle with all of those mixed in high frequencies.
You usually only see this HF circuitry used on the output stages of differential output stages or modular IC output stages. So you say . . . .No correction found . . . . . .

I'll make a snippet later showing the actual values of the capacitors that I replaced with the old ones.
From what I remember, C36 was a 1000uf cap and C24 a 500uf. I replaced them with a 1000uf and a 470uf, even though on the schematic, C36 figure as 2000 ufds.


Looking at the radio, I realised, This unit looks like a vef sigma 260, but on the inside is not.
Why that? Because I have another older, lower quality vef sigma 260.

When servicing on this unit, I realised that the boards are different from the older one. Even the mains connector is different.

It turns out that, the casing outside is of a vef sigma 260 and on the inside is of a vef 260-2.
What are the differences between them? They are almost the exact same. Firstly, the quality,(it is made for export) then the circuitry.
Let me show you:

The casings (they are the same)
IMG_20180310_150606.jpg


The amplifier-preamp-tape record board
xx.jpg

and the power supply:
IMG_20180310_150340.jpg
IMG_20180310_150445.jpg


What led me to think that this is a vef-260-2 board, is the replacement of the 8pin top hat ic with 2 transistors, and various differences of the component placements on the board.

Now, I shall supply you with the schematic of the vef 260-2, you'll see that it matches these differences, especially the replacement of the ic with 2 transistors in the tape recording section.
There are 2 versions of the schematic, one both in English and Russian, and one only in Russian, but with far better image quality.

English-Russian: https://photoland.io/i/PncrG or https://pli.io/PncrG.png
Only Russian: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CQbBrZGc2Viuvk_ajdlcYoUt1Di2vx2F/view (zoom by scroll wheel, you can download too)

You'll see that the amplifier section is almost the same, I saw that C40 is also added there.
When replacing the caps, I wondered, where this c40 goes, because, on the normal vef sigma 260 schematic, it isn't there.
Also look at C36 on the full schematic, I think it switches on when on radio and off when on tape, pay attention to the RADIO/TAPE (that is also the on/off) switch and AFC/LIGHT one too, and follow the points.

I suggest you first consult the English schematic, then, if something is unclear or not easily readable, you check the only-Russian one.
Those russians, couldn't they use the vef 260-2 case...

How a vef 260-2 case should look like: (I personally like the case that I currently have, it looks older)
vef260_2.jpg
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20180310_150340.jpg
    IMG_20180310_150340.jpg
    322.2 KB · Views: 68
  • IMG_20180310_150445.jpg
    IMG_20180310_150445.jpg
    310.1 KB · Views: 68
  • IMG_20180310_150606.jpg
    IMG_20180310_150606.jpg
    210.3 KB · Views: 58
  • xx.jpg
    xx.jpg
    294.7 KB · Views: 72
Last edited:
BTW do you still have the original KT315 and KT3107 driver transistors ?
The original driver transistors are in their place on the PCB, I only replaced T9 and T10 (KT814A & KT815A) So, yes.

The whole A8 board schematic, with the current replacement capacitor values and the 2 replaced transistors (VT9&10):
2.jpg

All the old caps were replaced with 105C Samwha RD series electrolytic capacitors.
Datasheet for these: http://www.samwha.com/electric/product/list_pdf2/RD.pdf
 
Sir Richard9025 . . . . .

When you replotted the schematic, the very LAST time it showed one thing that I had not noticed before.
But some parts are being drawn up better on the original snippet on post #27 , so I will be referencing to it.

The thing of beauty with the power output transistors is that they are like twins, but with one being an NPN and the other a PNP.
Soooooo . . . . either of the original sets or the other two new sets you have set over to the side should have very close beta / gain ratings.

Not so on the KT315 and KT3107 set . . . . . look up the KT315 and it would look like that is going to be a sluggish / weak transistor with only a minimum gain of 30 being promised.
Then look up the companion KT3107 and they willingly offer a much larger 70 as being its minimum gain spec.
That could end up a a 2 to 1 gain difference spec between the two units.

If a circuit designer had to work with that potential gain disparity, they just look at the R30-R34-R34-R37-R38-R39-R41 series resistor loop and then adjust the resistance ratios to end up with proper balanced inputs to V8 and V9 bases.
BUT . . .with due consideration, that any resistor being tied in to them, will ALSO be having some effect.
Point in case is the base of the V2 transistor, a micro DC shift can cause a huge shift after it passes thru 5 more stages of DC-DC coupling, with all of their multiplied / accumulated gains.

Notice that the C14 coupling capacitor DC isolates (less its micro leakage) the base of V2 . Then the the base bias for V2 stage is derived via the R17-R18-R19 series resistor string. The end 100K resistors limit the adjustment range to such that only R118 will then trim in the central "sweet spot" range.
The unit needs to be set such that the positive audio node swings along with the negative audio mode swings are being processed equally.
Have that set incorrect and the DC level shift at the final output stage will be offset as well as some audio node peaks running out of enough voltage to complete their full waveform swing, so they flat top.
Result . . . . . . . distortion on higher volume handling . . . or . . .excess DC current consumption on the output stage.
Testing . . . .
See where the onset of distortion is first definitely perceived and then trim in R18, accordingly, as you increase the volume.
Finally, we need to then go back and re check the inter-reacting R38 . . . . . crossover bias setting again.

73's de Edd
.....
 
Soooooo . . . . either of the original sets or the other two new sets you have set over to the side should have very close beta / gain ratings.
I don't know if the gain ratings are very close on the new transistors.
They are both from the same brand, and have a making on them: Besides BD139-10/140-10, it is marked J8T and H1T, maybe it is something about the gain? I know that some transistors also feature some markings for the gain rating

IMG_20180305_181159 - Copy.jpg



Testing . . . .
See where the onset of distortion is first definitely perceived and then trim in R18, accordingly, as you increase the volume.
Finally, we need to then go back and re check the inter-reacting R38 . . . . . crossover bias setting again.
Adjusting R18 and R38 does nothing to the audio.

Very good news below:

So, when adjusting R18 and R18 I thought, what if the amplifier isn't the problem because I did almost everything I can with it.
Soo I injected thru the + of C14 (base of VT2) two signals, a 1khz tone and Rasputin.
Guess what? The amplifier works wonderfully and it sounds very very good, even better than my other radios.
The initial hissing was caused because I used like 1.5m of wire from the tablet to radio. (normal, not screened wire)

Now that the amp isn't the problem, we have 2 variants, either the input tone/switching circuitry (Orange square) either the IF-RF-detector-preamp-etc board (bordered with pink)
vef.jpg

I'll test point 29 (output of the AF preamp after the detection) (where the red line starts) and the - of C14 (output of the tone circuitry) and see where is the distortion.
I'll also make a JPEG version of the schematic (This forum likes more JPEG than PNG when I upload a 1MB PNG it says it is too large, but 1MB JPEG works)
Many thanks!
 
Sir Richard9025 . . . . .

Your ORANGE ( It reproduces as YELLOW on my monitor ) box area is being all passive tone and volume R-C components.
Your simplest initial test might just be to switch the radio between AM broadcast band and FM band.
Since, FM band uses VT11 transistor as its audio post amp stage while AM band uses VT12 transistor
as its audio post amp stage .
Is one function, being just as good as the earlier tested audio proved to be ?
I believe that your separate numbers on the PWR transistors are being either manufacturing runs of code dates.
Usually small signal transistors some time have such a gain spread that they sort them and have an additional alphabetical character on the next line down as a code to signify the particular beta cluster.

73's de Edd
.....
 
Your simplest initial test might just be to switch the radio between AM broadcast band and FM band.
No difference, the distortion is exactly the same on both bands.

I disconnected the negative side of C61 and attached a crocodile lead to it that leads to the direct input of the amp of another radio.

IMG_20180314_171641.jpg


The audio is very clear, with absolutely no distortions. So the problem is within the orange/yellow box, here I await your advice.

I uploaded a much better version of the schematic:
You can either view/download it uncompressed here: https://lensdump.com/i/8RR0x2
Or just use the forum version:
vef-260-2_sh (1).jpg

Also the yellow box in the English version (for translation) :
vef-260-2_1 - Copy (2).png
 
Richard ... Look for V9-V10= 1.10V difference or (2x)Vbe = 0.55V. adjusted by R38. This controls the Class A output current to about 10mA Your input signal and hiss is too strong so I would highly recommend reducing the gain by adding to 150 to 220 to R32(56 Ohm) this reduces the gain so you can get cleaner volume.
 
Your input signal and hiss is too strong
That's from like the first replies that I posted.
The hiss is from the loong, unscreened wire that I used to get the audio from the android tablet to the audio points.
With a much shorter wire, the audio is very strong, no hisses, no distortion, very clear:
https://vocaroo.com/i/s1flzEP6Gc8K (the sound is extremely loud, you can't notice on the recording)
This audio I obtained by injecting the signal from the android tablet into the + of C14 using a very short wire. (I also disconnected the other lead of C14 so the radio and the signal won't overlap)
These results lead me to think that the amplifier is not a problem.'
Thanks for the reply!

I measured all the components of the tone circuitry (the only thing that stays between the perfectly clear detected audio and the amplifier) and they all look good, except the yellow questionable components.

tone.jpg

Maybe this circuit is good and the amp isn't amplifying properly because it doesn't "like" the signal? From a phone/tablet, it really "likes" it and amplifies it extremely well...
 
The fix is either attenuate input signal or reduce power amp gain as I indicated. The problems I stated were
"Your input signal and hiss are too strong"
 
Top