Wagner Electric motor type RA

[Harl]

Greetings,

My name is Harl, I'm a cabinetmaker here in New Hampshire. I went to start my 4" jointer and the motor wouldn't run. A friend had a Wagner type RA 1/3 HP single phase motor (no capacitor) he let me have. I swapped the motors out, wired it up 110 and it ran so quiet I could hardly hear it. They sure knew how to build em back in the day. When I attached the "V" belt and started the jointer, it ran in reverse. I figure 8ed the belt, but It flew off after a few dozen revolutions. The motor still has the wiring diagram sticker on the case. Unfortunately it says nothing about reversing polarity anywhere. The wires are not numbered. Instead there is a black, green, orange and red wire coming out of the case. Currently the green and red wires are wound together and the orange and black are together. Seeing there are no C or CC anywhere on the sticker, does this mean this motor is unidirectional and can not be made to run in reverse?

Thanks for any help you may provide.

Harl

 

[Tha fios agaibh]

A friend had a Wagner type RA 1/3 HP single phase motor (no capacitor

Hi Harl. Are you sure it doesn't have a cap?
Most motors for jointers are induction type that use a starting capacitor.
If so, the leads of the starting winding can be swapped around to change direction. I don't recognize your color patern. They often use a yellow and orange for starting ckt.

You may have another option to change rotation if you cant decipher the wires;
Take the case of the motor apart and swap the stator winding around 180° provided it can be physically done.

 

[Harl]

Thanks for the reply,
The cap might be buried inside the case. The origin of this motor is unknown, but it was not a jointer. The motor does seem to have a break when the RPM's get low. If anyone knows this wire color combo and how to arrange it to reverse polarity, it would be appreciated. red/ green... orange/black
Thanks again..

 

[Tha fios agaibh]

The windings can also be figured out with an ohmmeter, but like I suggested, flipping the motor stator around works too.

 

[Minder]

There is a RA motor on ebay right now, 253804527141, no sign of a capacitor, back then repulsion-induction type were popular and Wagner used to make this type and looked exactly like the one on ebay.
It is possible it is one in this case.
They have a wound rotor for starting, and the brush gear has to be moved to reverse the motor.
M.

 

[Tha fios agaibh]

I've heard of RI type motors, but I wonder what RA stands for?

If Harl would post some pictures of the motor perhaps it would clarify.

If it is a repulsion type motor, there should be a plate at the rear of the motor that can be taken off to access the brush gear.

 

[Minder]

R = Repulsion?
I also have the exact pic of the Wagner RA one on ebay in my Rosenberg motor 'Bible' , and it is in a chapter on Repulsion motors.
M.

 

[Harl]

"There is a RA motor on ebay right now, 253804527141, no sign of a capacitor, back then repulsion-induction type were popular and Wagner used to make this type and looked exactly like the one on ebay.
It is possible it is one in this case.
They have a wound rotor for starting, and the brush gear has to be moved to reverse the motor."

Brush gear, moved to where, do you mean flipped it in place? Is there a drawing or schematic I can look at? Remember guys, I have at best an elementary understanding of electric motors. So hinting at things, thinking I know what your talking about, will not work in this instance.

Thanks again,

Harl

 

[Minder]

There should be quite alot on ebay but I will post a page or two from the Rosenberg motor winding and re-winding manual as it shows the pic of the ebay one.
M.

 

[Minder]

The Brushes are usually moved a few degrees off of centre one way or the other to reverse.
PDF attached of a couple of pages.
Too bad the file is too big for this site.
I will try individual pages.
M.

 

[Minder]

Try this.
M.

 

[Harl]

MInder,

From an expatriate Canadian to a fellow Canuck, thank you. Born in NS, lived in Calgary, schooled in Ottawa. I will pull the end off this motor and report back with what I find.

 

[Tha fios agaibh]

This type motor moves it about 180° eh?

 

[Harl]

HI guys,

So I took the motor apart for cleaning and inspecting. On one of the two end caps this is what I found. Thinking that this brass tab on the upper left, reverses the motors direction. I loosened the retaining screw and moved this brass tab to the opposite side, unfortunately to no effect. I did not find a capacitor. BTW, the vertical tab on the right at the 3 o:clock position, inserts into a slot on the side of the brush assembly. There is only one slot for this tab. Thank you for the video of the reversing brush assembly. I wonder if the motor I have has this option? Maybe if there were a manual for this motor, it would describe a way to reverse the motor's direction. I have search for such a manual with no joy. Thanks again.. .

 

[Minder]

Pretty much confirms it is a Repulsion/induction motor so there will be no cap.
The General principle usually requires that the brushes be moved anywhere from 10 or so degrees and up to 90 deg either side of the 'neutral position in order to reverse the is the direction.
The current induced into the armature coil is the same polarity as the stator causing the 'Repulsion'.
Did moving the tab appear to move anything related to the brush gear internally?
M.

 

[Harl]

MInder, thank you again for your help... When I moved the tab, the cover was off the motor. I wonder know, if I moved the tab while the end cap was in place, if that wouldn't move the brushes where they need to go to reverse the motor's direction? I'll pull the cover again to see if I can manipulate the position of the bushes accordingly.

Thank you..

 

[Harl]

Victory eh! After much mashination and the help from Minder and Tha Fios, who both gave great advice. Also a call to a local gent who knows these motors inside n out. I was finally able to figure this out. It was so simple, it only took loosening a single screw, removing the inspection and turning the bush assembly a few degrees to port. Bingo, the motor runs in the direction needed.

You've been a great help and I learned allot.

Thanks again,

H

 

[riverdrifter31]

Harl,

I have a motor just like the one you described. Can you give me a detailed description of how you reversed yours?

Thanks,
Riverdrifter31