The joys of having a non technical manager.

[[email protected]]

My non technical manager thinks that our (very) complex electronic
products shouldn't have prototype stages in the project plan because
electronics engineers should aim to 'get it right first time'. This
guy has had 20 highly successful years of managing the production of
speakers, and treats every little design problem as a sign of
incompetance (and I do mean little).

Has anyone else had this kind of experience and how did you cope?

 

[[email protected]]

My non technical manager thinks that our (very) complex electronic
products shouldn't have prototype stages in the project plan because
electronics engineers should aim to 'get it right first time'. This
guy has had 20 highly successful years of managing the production of
speakers, and treats every little design problem as a sign of
incompetance (and I do mean little).

Has anyone else had this kind of experience and how did you cope?

I think most people in the techical arena have experienced that management
doesn't comprehend or understand what makes their development (future) or
products (current) tick. Just read the history of tech business, it's full
of this phenomen.
Assuming failure is one way to avoid really bad gotchas. That is having the
prototype fail, rather than a significant part of the customer base.

 

[Joerg]

My non technical manager thinks that our (very) complex electronic
products shouldn't have prototype stages in the project plan because
electronics engineers should aim to 'get it right first time'. ...

That's how I usually design. White sheet, sharp pencil -> CAD -> Layout
-> Fab.

... This
guy has had 20 highly successful years of managing the production of
speakers, and treats every little design problem as a sign of
incompetance (and I do mean little).

That would be the point to look for a new job. Everybody makes mistakes,
sometimes datasheets are over-hyped and you are bound to run aground,
and so on. If a manager turns this into insults it's time to leave.

Has anyone else had this kind of experience and how did you cope?

I've worked with lots of non-tech managers. Never had a problem. A
manager does not necessarily need to have expertise in all the stuff his
engineers do. However, he/she must be a good organizer, conflict solver,
generalist and motivator. Sounds like the latter is what's sorely
lacking here.

 

[mpm]

My non technical manager thinks that our (very) complex electronic
products shouldn't have �prototype stages in the project plan because
electronics engineers should aim to 'get it right first time'. This
guy has had 20 highly successful years of managing the production of
speakers, and treats every little design problem as a sign of
incompetance (and I do mean little).

Has anyone else had this kind of experience and how did you cope?

Buy your manager a copy of Peter Senge's
"Fifth Discipline".

Probably available as an audiobook.

 

[[email protected]]

Look him right square in the eye and say, "That's what my last manager
said."

Jim

Interestingly the manager in my last job did. That's why I'm now in
this job - the previous manager in this job was great - what he called
'normal developmental issues' are now basis for all sorts of
accusations. He tragically died earlier this year and now I'm back in
the same situation. Before my last job I had 15 or so good years of
praise and raise.

 

[Joerg]

My 46 year batting average is better than 99%

Mine is 100%. Then again, I only did one on my own ))

Well, at least it was a high voltage design.

Of course I've had quite a few designs where the customer says, "I
know that's what we spec'd, but that's not what we wanted" :-(

I guess that's why us consultants usually bill time, travel and materials.

 

[[email protected]]

In the early days had a couple like that. Ex forces people who never made
the military officer class but on being made industrial managers assumed
they'd get instant respect and attention from the technical oiks. Doesn't
work that way.
Your only viable option is to change jobs or leave (and do it now!). He
won't be changing. He's a good track record in "speakers" and it'll need a
lot of his people baling out before -his- managers take the hint.
Later on I had some good managers. The good ones basically figure out who
they can (and cannot) trust and  then build up a technical support structure
that allows the work to be done.

Your man's  right though  to proclaim "aim to get it right first time" but
he can only ever, ever, ever, be allowed to issue this statement if he's
proved that he can come on -your- job and sort -your- problems out.
He's talking bollocks otherwise.
Only products that don't require prototypes are wholly digital or simple
analogue. Beyond a few transistors or a few MHz there's interaction and it's
cheaper and faster to build a physically accessible prototype.

Today been working on a AD9951 DDS with 2 AD8099's opamps. Setup needs a
filter. Past experience said I'd have trouble, so prototyped it before
committing to the design. Yep, the nice 120MHz low pass leaked like a sieve.
Cured by a tin can casing and some real inductors. Now left with musing on
how to kill the strong 1.2GHz oscillation of an AD8099. No way could this
design have gone straight to PCB.

Thanks for the mail. I'm sure you've come across the type who just
can't see how you couldn't have foreseen those things and
unfortunately people confuse the ability to find fault with the
ability to do a better job in the same situation.

PS someone once told me the trick of using low value resistors in
series with the feedback capacitors of op amp LP filters to stop HF
oscillation.

 

[Phil Allison]

My non technical manager thinks that our (very) complex electronic
products shouldn't have prototype stages in the project plan because
electronics engineers should aim to 'get it right first time'. This
guy has had 20 highly successful years of managing the production of
speakers, and treats every little design problem as a sign of
incompetance (and I do mean little).

** Are you saying that your project manager is non-technical ???

Surely only an experienced engineer has that job ?

Has anyone else had this kind of experience and how did you cope?

** Personally - I would tell him he is unqualified to be a project manager
and simply ignore the ridiculous control freak.

You have not supplied near enough info on your situation or the management
structure for any better advice.



...... Phil

 

[Eeyore]

My non technical manager thinks that our (very) complex electronic
products shouldn't have prototype stages in the project plan because
electronics engineers should aim to 'get it right first time'. This
guy has had 20 highly successful years of managing the production of
speakers, and treats every little design problem as a sign of
incompetance (and I do mean little).

Has anyone else had this kind of experience and how did you cope?

Hilarious.

Reminds me of 2 guys who said the prototype stage was so you could get it
wrong then fix it.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Assuming failure practically guarantees it.

Indeed.

I freaked those 2 guys I worked with because I didn't 'stripboard' my designs. I
said let's go straight to pcb and then we can see how well it all works (and
fits) together first time round. Usually only minor re-iterations were required.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

We cope by getting it right the first time.

My company philosophy is to go from paper to production. That means no
prototypes. The rev A drawings and parts lists and manuals are
formally released, manufacturing builds a few, and we make them work.
Over 90% of the time, we can sell rev A.

In my case those would be the display models at exhibitions. We'd often
keep them as design references and for long term testing.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

PS someone once told me the trick of using low value resistors in
series with the feedback capacitors of op amp LP filters to stop HF
oscillation.

Helps the phase margin IIRC.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Suggest he propose his unique design philosophy to managers at Boeing!

I've heard it rumoured that the first one or two 787s will only ever after
initial flight testing be 'gate guardians'.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Ask him if he would rather sign off on the bill of materials for a 100
piece pilot run or a million piece production run.

That brings it home.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

That's what all the bean counters are tried to sell to Boeing's
engineering management. They call it Six Sigma. No more certification or
acceptance testing.

Problems will be unearthed by the customer. Sometimes literally, at a
crash scene.

I thought that tombstone engineering was supposed to be dead and buried.

Graham

 

[mpm]

Reminds me of 2 guys who said the prototype stage was so you could get it
wrong then fix it.

Reminds me of an old Dilbert comic, where they're all sitting around a
table at a production meeting and Wally holds up the product. The
Boss say "That's only cardboard!" To which Wally replies, "Oh, then
it's Beta."

Or something along those lines..... Went looking for the strip but
could not find it.

-----
Actually, another poster raises an interesting point.

The push to final product without adequate controls and proper testing
could leave the Company open to Product Liability issues. If someone
is seriously injured or killed as a result of using the product, an
astute lawyer might subpeona documents to determine the extent to
which the Company was aware of the safety issues. Having no process
in such a situation would likely be viewed quite negatively, perhaps
even as reckless.

-mpm

 

[mpm]

Some things you have to get right the first time. Mountain climbing.
Skydiving. Single-hand ocean sailing. Building jet planes.

Apparently, you can scratch skydiving from that list....
See: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17113222/

-mpm

 

[Phil Allison]

"John Larkin"

mpm

That consideration is orthogonal to prototyping.

** What asinine, issue avoiding drivel.

It's a cultural thing:

** Worse than ridiculous.

do we do our best to make the initial design 100% right, or do
we hack a first attempt and assume it won't be good enough to sell?

** Attempts to falsely define the issue = same as avoiding it.

Frankly,

** Frankly - John Larkin is a ridiculous, posturing nut case.

Thousands of his putrid piles of autistic verbal diarrhoea here prove that.

the prototype approach will probably result in an inferior,
buggier product getting into the field.

** The truth is the exact opposite, of course.

Larkin is nothing more than another trolling jerk off.




...... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

"John Larkin"

mpm

That consideration is orthogonal to prototyping.

** What asinine, issue avoiding drivel.

It's a cultural thing:

** Worse than ridiculous.

do we do our best to make the initial design 100% right, or do
we hack a first attempt and assume it won't be good enough to sell?

** Attempts to falsely define the issue = same as avoiding it.

Frankly,

** Frankly - John Larkin is a ridiculous, posturing nut case.

Thousands of his putrid piles of autistic verbal diarrhoea here prove that.

the prototype approach will probably result in an inferior,
buggier product getting into the field.

** The truth is the exact opposite, of course.

Larkin is nothing more than another trolling jerk off.




...... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

"John Larkin"

mpm

That consideration is orthogonal to prototyping.

** What asinine, issue avoiding drivel.

It's a cultural thing:

** Worse than ridiculous.

do we do our best to make the initial design 100% right, or do
we hack a first attempt and assume it won't be good enough to sell?

** Attempts to falsely define the issue = same as avoiding it.

Frankly,

** Frankly - John Larkin is a ridiculous, posturing nut case.

Thousands of his putrid piles of autistic verbal diarrhoea here prove that.

the prototype approach will probably result in an inferior,
buggier product getting into the field.

** The truth is the exact opposite, of course.

Larkin is nothing more than another trolling jerk off.

Plus a complete ASSHOLE.




...... Phil