Structured wiring: fiber optic or not?

[Josepi]

I learned early in my fibre job career that fibre optics are only required
where copper limits the length of cable due to bandwidth usage.

OTOH: I have learned in electrical high tension stations it can eliminate
some of the ground gradient problems with copper commuication buses during
high current electrical fault conditions.


A few do, mainly those who do development work at home, though the
need for this has been reduced by virtual hardware. I know two people
who have multiple servers at home. I can see no reason why anybody
would need fibre at home, other than possibly for testing or training
purposes.

I was replying to James's suggestion that fibre is no longer installed
for purely internal connections within buildings, other than in
special circumstances; it certainly is, at least in larger buildings

I doubt a householder will ever need to connect multiple servers via
anything to his multitude of PCs around the building.

..

 

[FigureItOut]

Can you use 100 SVGA CRT monitors? I could give you that many.

You were the idiot that was dumb enough to collect them.

You call me a troll, yet you converse with a top posting dolt that
ignores folks telling him to learn how to post to Usenet properly.

Yeah, Mich, yer a real Usenet guru... not.

 

[James Sweet]

You were the idiot that was dumb enough to collect them.

I wouldn't be surprised in the least if they become valuable
collectibles at some point, they're getting scrapped so quickly that
sooner or later they'll become rare. I'd have laughed if someone told me
that a few years ago but things are changing. Something common as dirt
is worthless and most of them get thrown away, then down the road people
who remember them get nostalgic and by that point most of them are gone.

I've seen several 486 PC systems fetch $250-$350 on ebay recently,
actual sales, not just sky high opening bids. I threw out several a
number of years ago when they were less than worthless and apparently so
did everyone else. An original PC/XT or AT with a matching monitor will
get at least a hundred bucks, often more. Apple II systems that I saw go
for a few dollars a pallet load at school auctions will now bring
hundreds each in working condition.

I would personally pay up to $100 for a decent condition IBM 5154 EGA
monitor for my own collection, but they don't come up often and when
they do they normally fetch upwards of $200.

The same thing happened with tube audio gear. That stuff was getting
pitched left and right in the 60s and 70s, now virtually tube audio gear
is worth something, with certain items fetching small fortunes.

 

[FigureItOut]

I wouldn't be surprised in the least if they become valuable
collectibles at some point,

Only certain models.

Like, I have a Ball monochrome Hercules vector graphic display that is
still in the box. That would be worth something.

Or like the top of the line Viewsonic fine line, high bandwidth
display that only the Mac nuts can claim to top.

I have both. I also have a 10MB Tandon original HD. That will only be
worth something a few minutes after I die.

they're getting scrapped so quickly that
sooner or later they'll become rare.

Bullshit. Not without some defining feature. Like the Sony tube flat
screen era. It also has to be max 0.25 dot pitch. Any bigger and they
are a dime a dozen.

I'd have laughed if someone told me
that a few years ago but things are changing. Something common as dirt
is worthless and most of them get thrown away, then down the road people
who remember them get nostalgic and by that point most of them are gone.

I have the last huge TV (one of them) the Toshiba HD SD combo set at
37".

That isn't the biggest, but that is one huge scan area.

I've seen several 486 PC systems fetch $250-$350 on ebay recently,

I should spec my old machines out and put them up. I even have an old
EISA 486 DX screamer.

actual sales, not just sky high opening bids. I threw out several a
number of years ago when they were less than worthless and apparently so
did everyone else.

I didn't. I think I still have my first machine (PC). I wish I still
had my first computer (a pair of Atari 800s).

An original PC/XT or AT with a matching monitor will
get at least a hundred bucks, often more.

My friend's PC XT had no HD, nor did it have a detachable display.
It was integrated into the base/computer chassis. Itwas an IBM product.

Apple II systems that I saw go
for a few dollars a pallet load at school auctions will now bring
hundreds each in working condition.

Yeah. I saw some mainframe stuff that gets sold for scrap weight
prices. There were some NICE air handling systems in those things,
dangit.

I would personally pay up to $100 for a decent condition IBM 5154 EGA
monitor for my own collection, but they don't come up often and when
they do they normally fetch upwards of $200.

Sad too. A used thumb mouse from Logitech goes for $45, and the damned
things are always on their last legs (the switches go out).

None of the new models are done right. They should bring back the old
design as a gaming mouse, which is why the old one is so popular.

The same thing happened with tube audio gear. That stuff was getting
pitched left and right in the 60s and 70s, now virtually tube audio gear
is worth something, with certain items fetching small fortunes.

Yes, but they are hugely overpriced, and over hyped as being 'better'
when they are not. That fad will pass too.

Those old baby finger sized tubes would be cool to see again though...
Don;t know if you are familiar with those.

 

[Josepi]

Most of the ones I refer to have CPU's. Even fairly simple tasks use a CPU
these days. My thermostats have about 500 settings each alone, plus the
central mixer control they talk to via comm bus...LOL

House control logic system, alternative energy system control and monitoring
and it's slave CPU that control's the grid co-gen power system. Media player
PC system, even my TV has a CPU with firmware I upgrade, CPU sewing machines
and control CPU for them. Not to mention the CPU based SCADA systems I run
for analogue monitoring and control of functions in my workshop shed, from
the house (1200 baud 4W modem...LOL). The list goes on and on these days.

100 SVGA CRT monitors?... Yuk. That's alot of energy and space.

I was just discussing, with the wife, tonight how movies are so dated, now
by the CRT monitors used. What was high-tech, not ten years ago looks silly
in the cops and sci-fi shows. Meanwhile they are so careful not to mention
dates in most movies...LOL My, how fast things change.


I'm not talking about spare parts or PIC chips. I'm talking about
desktops, laptops, and multimedia computers.

Can you use 100 SVGA CRT monitors? I could give you that many.

 

[Josepi]

I have a 37" glass tube Sony that works fine for Wii games.

Try to stay on topic and avoid your posting style ignorance. It's a
way-too-obvious troll indicator and gets you into so many kill-filters very
quickly. Perhaps look into a proper newsreader that can use more up-to-date
posting styles. Forte Agent 4.1 seems to be pretty antiquated when not used
for binary software piracy. Perhaps you haven't set it up correctly and it
is still attempting to sort out the confusion with right caret characters on
attachment reference text.

You may notice how most readers thread the posts and the previous text can
be referenced by going back a line? Many site online can teach you this by
googling "beginning Usenet posting"

Hope this helps.


I have the last huge TV (one of them) the Toshiba HD SD combo set at
37".

 

[James Sweet]

Bullshit. Not without some defining feature. Like the Sony tube flat
screen era. It also has to be max 0.25 dot pitch. Any bigger and they
are a dime a dozen.

Like that they support resolutions used by the old PCs. Analog VGA
starting to go away. Some new monitors are digital only and resolutions
are creeping up. Try to find *any* new CRT monitor, they're out there
but a huge and increasing percentage are flat panels. I'm not aware of
any desktop monitors that have been in production over the last decade
that would sync down to the CGA and EGA scan rates. I'm not saying these
things will be gold, but I've been shocked at how quickly something that
is so common that people are paying to get rid of it, suddenly becomes
difficult to find.

I should spec my old machines out and put them up. I even have an old
EISA 486 DX screamer.

You might get lucky. I wouldn't personally pay a lot for one, but I do
have fond memories of playing with 8088's through 386's and lusting
after powerhouse 486 machines when I was a kid.

My friend's PC XT had no HD, nor did it have a detachable display.
It was integrated into the base/computer chassis. Itwas an IBM product.

They made a "luggable" PC with an integrated CRT display but, I believe
it was the model 5155 portable PC. The original PC and the PC/XT used
external monitors, TTL monochrome, CGA, or EGA depending on the video
card installed.

Yeah. I saw some mainframe stuff that gets sold for scrap weight
prices. There were some NICE air handling systems in those things,
dangit.

Mainframe stuff is neat, and it does contain some cool parts and
systems. Unfortunately most of it is far too big and heavy for most of
the people collecting this stuff, and not many people remember playing
with mainframes when they were kids.

Sad too. A used thumb mouse from Logitech goes for $45, and the damned
things are always on their last legs (the switches go out).

None of the new models are done right. They should bring back the old
design as a gaming mouse, which is why the old one is so popular.

I've had a hard time finding mice that I like too. I'm quite fond of the
MS Intellimouse prior to the "ergonomic" redesign that just doesn't seem
to be made for the shape of my hand. Mine is looking a little shabby but
still works fine.

Yes, but they are hugely overpriced, and over hyped as being 'better'
when they are not. That fad will pass too.

Those old baby finger sized tubes would be cool to see again though...
Don;t know if you are familiar with those.

"Better" is in the eye/ear of the beholder. Personally I prefer the
crisp clean sound of a good solid state amp and digital source, but tube
gear is still cool, there's just something neat about the glowing
bottles and that smell of burning dust. As with many collectibles, I
wouldn't pay nearly the going rate, but I still wouldn't mind having one.

I think I know the tubes you refer to, darned if I can remember what
they were called though. I've only seen them in pictures but they were
tiny, not a whole lot larger than early transistors. IIRC they saw use
in some radiation hardened military/space equipment long after tubes had
been gone away in consumer gear.

 

[James Sweet]

I was just discussing, with the wife, tonight how movies are so dated, now
by the CRT monitors used. What was high-tech, not ten years ago looks silly
in the cops and sci-fi shows. Meanwhile they are so careful not to mention
dates in most movies...LOL My, how fast things change.

I love that about old sci-fi movies. It's fun to see what was considered
futuristic at the time. Of course if a technology hasn't been thought of
yet, it's pretty hard to accurately portray it in a movie!

It's amazing how fast things progress. If someone 10 years ago had told
me that by now you'd be able to buy a 2 Terabyte 3.5" hard drive for
~$100 I'd have thought they were on drugs. The first hard drive I bought
was 340MB and cost around $400, and that seemed like a bargain at the time.

 

[Josepi]

I remember getting my first large memory board that was capable of 64K of
static RAM populated to 16K for just under $1000. I had to write my own
drivers for the floppy disk interface and beat the market technology using a
double sided 5.25" drive with 40 tracks instead of the usual 35 tracks. This
took it past the 100K of storage.

But those were still the advanced days from the Motorola MEK6800D2 kits. 1K
of RAM memory was a huge upgrade and was almost a dream. I had to do a lot
of foil scratching and air mounting to get those four chips wired in. Two
note music was a big fascination and a few of us defined standards to store
musical notes in so they could be shared with others using 1802 RCA
processors. PCs (Intel) were never heard of and IBM didn't make micro PCs
period. They were only toys until they put their name on them.


I love that about old sci-fi movies. It's fun to see what was considered
futuristic at the time. Of course if a technology hasn't been thought of
yet, it's pretty hard to accurately portray it in a movie!

It's amazing how fast things progress. If someone 10 years ago had told
me that by now you'd be able to buy a 2 Terabyte 3.5" hard drive for
~$100 I'd have thought they were on drugs. The first hard drive I bought
was 340MB and cost around $400, and that seemed like a bargain at the time.

 

[Josepi]

Tell your circuits to calculate the ratio between diameter and circumference
of a circle to 1,000,000 decimal places and get back when you have done
that.

Text has no legs. How can you post such a nonsense text?


JOSEPINGO
WHY DON'T YOU CHOMP DOWN ON A UPRIGHT 3/4 INCH PIPE
YOUR WORKMANSHIP AND TECHNICAL ANECDOTES ARE LAME AND POINTLESS
REGARDING THIS POST

I remember getting my first large memory board that was capable of 64K of
static RAM populated to 16K for just under $1000. I had to write my own
drivers for the floppy disk interface and beat the market technology using
a
double sided 5.25" drive with 40 tracks instead of the usual 35 tracks.
This
took it past the 100K of storage.

But those were still the advanced days from the Motorola MEK6800D2 kits.
1K
of RAM memory was a huge upgrade and was almost a dream. I had to do a lot
of foil scratching and air mounting to get those four chips wired in. Two
note music was a big fascination and a few of us defined standards to
store
musical notes in so they could be shared with others using 1802 RCA
processors. PCs (Intel) were never heard of and IBM didn't make micro PCs
period. They were only toys until they put their name on them.


I love that about old sci-fi movies. It's fun to see what was considered
futuristic at the time. Of course if a technology hasn't been thought of
yet, it's pretty hard to accurately portray it in a movie!

It's amazing how fast things progress. If someone 10 years ago had told
me that by now you'd be able to buy a 2 Terabyte 3.5" hard drive for
~$100 I'd have thought they were on drugs. The first hard drive I bought
was 340MB and cost around $400, and that seemed like a bargain at the
time.

I AM PROTEUS

 

[James Sweet]

And software that cost $30 now costs $100+! Producing millions of
complicated hardware reduces its price, but the price of software which
costs pennies to reproduce stays high.

When will people wise up and switch to open source?

It cost pennies to *reproduce* but how much do you think it costs to
produce? It doesn't write itself!

I use open source for a lot of things, but in many cases the
functionality I need or the quality is not there. I'm not a developer, I
don't wish to fix my own code. $100, or even $1000 is peanuts compared
to the time I can spend chasing down dependencies or scouring forums for
a solution instead of just referring to a nicely written manual or
calling up tech support.

I'm not intending to bash open source, but to use it or not is not a
case of whether one is "wise".