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simple nimh charger

I'm making rechargeable juggling toys out of recycled plastics and we
need a design for a simple charger for there batteries. because of the
design they need to be charged by a plug in there base and they run 3
nimh cells in series. what is the simplest design for a charger?

I am using a voltage divider using resistors at the moment but i
understand there is a technique using zenner diodes to stop the
charging when the cell internal voltage gets up to the value of the
zenner.

any suggestions would be greatly appreciated and very helpful.
 
L

linnix

I'm making rechargeable juggling toys out of recycled plastics and we
need a design for a simple charger for there batteries. because of the
design they need to be charged by a plug in there base and they run 3
nimh cells in series. what is the simplest design for a charger?

I am using a voltage divider using resistors at the moment but i

This will just slowly cook the batteries. The correct charging current
is 1C, or 2.6A for a 2.6Ahr battery. NuMH does not like slow
chargings.
understand there is a technique using zenner diodes to stop the
charging when the cell internal voltage gets up to the value of the
zenner.

It's easier to do it with a smps and a micro. Overcharging is also
fatal to NiMH.
 
J

John Doe

linnix said:
It's easier to do it with a smps and a micro. Overcharging is
also fatal to NiMH.

Hope you don't mind if I ask a related question.

I recently resoldered a NiMH in place of the single cell NiCad in my
electric toothbrush. The performance is 100% better. The unit has a
cool noncontact charger the toothbrush drops into. I doubt it's
sophisticated enough (or able) to measure voltage let alone
temperature. Would you guess that the NiMH is at risk of
overcharging? If necessary, maybe I'll just make the battery
removable and charge it in the Duracell charger.

Thank you.
 
L

linnix

John said:
Hope you don't mind if I ask a related question.

I recently resoldered a NiMH in place of the single cell NiCad in my
electric toothbrush. The performance is 100% better. The unit has a
cool noncontact charger the toothbrush drops into. I doubt it's
sophisticated enough (or able) to measure voltage let alone
temperature.

They are slow charger, so expect a short life for the battery.
Would you guess that the NiMH is at risk of
overcharging?

Not a problem if you brush your teeth everyday. I would not leave it
on the charger on vacation.
 
E

ehsjr

linnix said:
This will just slowly cook the batteries. The correct charging current
is 1C, or 2.6A for a 2.6Ahr battery. NuMH does not like slow
chargings.

According to Powerstream that's not a problem.
http://www.powerstream.com/NiMH.htm
"The cheapest way to charge a nickel metal hydride battery
is to charge at C/10 or below (10% of the rated capacity
per hour). So a 100 mAH battery would be charged at 10 mA
for 15 hours. This method does not require an end-of-charge
sensor and ensures a full charge. Modern cells have an oxygen
recycling catalyst which prevents damage to the battery on
overcharge, but this recycling cannot keep up if the charge
rate is over C/10. The minimum voltage you need to get a full
charge varies with temperature--at least 1.41 volts per cell
at 20 degrees C. Even though continued charging at C/10 does
not cause venting, it does warm the battery slightly. To
preserve battery life the best practice is to use a timer to
prevent overcharging to continue past 13 to 15 hours. "


Here's a simple C/10 circuit - 3 parts:

-----
+9 ---+---Vin|LM317|Vout---+
| ----- |
| Adj [R]
[C1] | |
| +----------+---> To batt (+)
|
Gnd --+------------------------> To batt (-)

C1 is .1 uF; R = 1.25/(C/10) where C is the
capacity of the cell in Ah. For example,
say your cells are rated 1000 mAh - that's
1 Ah. C/10 is .1, so R = 1.25/.1 or 12.5 ohms.

If the computed resistor value is not a standard
value, use the next higher standard size. The
resistor will need to dissipate P = (C/10)^2*R
watts - use one with a higher wattage than P.

Mount the LM317 on a heatsink. The input voltage
can be 9 or 12 or something higher, but the
higher the voltage, the more heat in the LM317.
The LM317 will dissipate about (Vin - 3)*(C/10)
worst case with 3 cells.

Powerstream recommends a timer so that you don't
leave the cells charging forever.

Ed
 
L

linnix

ehsjr said:
According to Powerstream that's not a problem.
http://www.powerstream.com/NiMH.htm
"The cheapest way to charge a nickel metal hydride battery
is to charge at C/10 or below

Here is a different opinion:

http://www.greenbatteries.com/bachfa.html#charger damage

Many battery manufacturers do not recommend long term ( months at a
time) trickle charging. If trickle charging is used then the charge
rate should be very low or only intermittent. The best smart chargers
will only send an occasional pulse charge to the battery once it is
charged. They do not apply a continuous low rate of charge. Some
battery resellers state that applying a continuous trickle charge of
about 1/10th the battery's capacity is not harmful. However, we have
not seen any battery manufacturer condone the practice.
Here's a simple C/10 circuit - 3 parts: LM317, R=1.25/(C/10), C=0.1uF

That is fine as the trickle charge part. But for fast charging, you
would need burn 20W on the Lm317 and 10W on the resistor.
Powerstream recommends a timer so that you don't
leave the cells charging forever.

as well as a termination method. They also say that they can't find a
good enough termination method based on dV/dt. The best method is
based on dT/dt. So, you need to add a thermosistor to a micro with A2D
as well.

They recommended tricke charging to bring up a fully discharged
battery, then switch to 1C charging and terminate with temperature
detection. They are not recommeding trickle charging as the default
method.
 
J

John Doe

linnix said:
....


Here is a different opinion:

http://www.greenbatteries.com/bachfa.html#charger damage

... Some battery resellers state that applying a continuous
trickle charge of about 1/10th the battery's capacity is not
harmful. However, we have not seen any battery manufacturer
condone the practice.

This is from Energizer's Battery Application Manual for nickel metal
hydride (NiMH) batteries.

Page 19: For charging schemes that then rely on a timed "topping'
charge to ensure complete charge, a rate of 0.1C appears to balance
adequate charge input with minimum adverse effects in overcharge.

Page 20: Because there is no sensing of the cell's transition into
overcharge, the charge rate must be kept low (0.1C) to minimize
overcharge-related impact on cell performance and life.

Page 21: The intermediate charge normally consists of a 0.1C charge
for a timed duration selected based on battery pack configuration.

Page 23: However, to avoid adverse effects on cell life and
performance, charging rates must be limited to 0.1C, which
constrains time-based charging to those products where overnight
return of charge is acceptable.

Page 24: Charge rates must also be reduced at low temperatures. An
upper limit of 0.1C is recommended below 15°C.

Hopefully that's not written by the same engineers that designed
Energizer's one-hour AA/AAA CH30MN charger that wouldn't charge AAA
batteries.

Message-ID: <10tu48ugetc4567 corp.supernews.com>

Have fun.
 
E

ehsjr

linnix said:
Here is a different opinion:

http://www.greenbatteries.com/bachfa.html#charger damage

Many battery manufacturers do not recommend long term ( months at a
time) trickle charging.

Who the hell is talking about leaving the battery in the charger
months at a time? Powerstream says, in the part of the quote you
snipped " To preserve battery life the best practice is to use a
timer to prevent overcharging to continue past 13 to 15 hours. "

If trickle charging is used then the charge
rate should be very low or only intermittent. The best smart chargers
will only send an occasional pulse charge to the battery once it is
charged. They do not apply a continuous low rate of charge. Some
battery resellers state that applying a continuous trickle charge of
about 1/10th the battery's capacity is not harmful. However, we have
not seen any battery manufacturer condone the practice.




That is fine as the trickle charge part. But for fast charging, you
would need burn 20W on the Lm317 and 10W on the resistor.

You want to talk fast charging, post a circuit - don't
pervert mine, which is intended for slow charging: C/10.
as well as a termination method.

Helloooooo ... the timer *is* the termination method.
Powerstream does *not* recommend a timer "as well as"
(meaning in addition to) a termination method.

They also say that they can't find a
good enough termination method based on dV/dt.

Irrelevant. Nothing to do with slow charging. You claimed
NiMh cells don't like slow charging. That's just plain baloney.
Both Powerstream and Greenbatteries recognize it as a viable
method. Neither claims NiMh cells don't like slow charging.
Both talk about improper charging being the culprit - however
it is arrived at. If you charge improperly, whether it is a
fast charge or a slow charge, you can damage batteries.

The best method is
based on dT/dt. So, you need to add a thermosistor to a micro with A2D
as well.

The op did not ask for the "best" method. He asked for
the simplest: "what is the simplest design for a charger?"
His resistor divider is likely simplest - but as you
point out is likely to cook his batteries. A light
bulb in series would be a candidate for simplest, but
requires a regulated voltage which is not as simple
as the LM317, cap and resistor. And those three parts
work whether the supply is regulated or not, and don't
require a light bulb. You want to add analog to digital
conversion, a thermistor, a micro and who knows what else.
That takes it far away from simplest.

Your ideas belong under another heading - perhaps
"best NiMh charger". And the idea that NiMh cells
don't like slow charging - well, it's hard to say
where that idea belongs.

Ed
 
L

linnix

This is from Energizer's Battery Application Manual for nickel metal
hydride (NiMH) batteries.

I hope we are reading the same document.
The full context of this statement is within the sentenses before it.

.... fast-charge rates serve to accentuate the slope changes
used to trigger both the temperature and voltage-related
charge terminations.

(i.e. slow charging would never detect the termination condition.

A charge rate of 1C is recommended for restoring a discharge cell to
full capacity.

(i.e. 1C until termination condition reached, then the below for timed
charging)
 
L

lasf13

linnix said:
I hope we are reading the same document.
The full context of this statement is within the sentenses before it.

... fast-charge rates serve to accentuate the slope changes
used to trigger both the temperature and voltage-related
charge terminations.

(i.e. slow charging would never detect the termination condition.

A charge rate of 1C is recommended for restoring a discharge cell to
full capacity.

(i.e. 1C until termination condition reached, then the below for timed
charging)

Since the "powerstream" quote was written by me maybe I can clarify a
little.
There are lots of ways to charge a battery. There are batteries that
can only
be charged quickly, but NiCads and NiMH are not among them. They can
be charged slowly.

There is a kind of no-man's-land that is tough, however. If you are
charging
fast enough that pressure will build up in the battery when it is full
then
you need to charge fast enough that the end-of-charge signal can be
easlily
detected. We consider this to be a charge rate less than 3 hours.

Best regards
mark
 
L

linnix

lasf13 said:
Since the "powerstream" quote was written by me maybe I can clarify a
little.

Powerstream does not make batteries, so we can't design based on what
they think. The Energizer's Battery Application Manual says charge
with 1C until termination, then 0.1C for timed topping charge. If our
system failed, we can blame Energizer, not Powerstream.
 
G

Glenn Gundlach

linnix wrote:
Powerstream does not make batteries, so we can't design based on what
they think. The Energizer's Battery Application Manual says charge
with 1C until termination, then 0.1C for timed topping charge. If our
system failed, we can blame Energizer, not Powerstream.

Now that's just a dumb thing to say. None of the semiconductor
manufacturers that make charging components make batteries either - so
they can't be trusted either?

If Powerstream is making a commercial product, they're having to deal
with battery brands, consumers, lawyers, suppliers etc. I suspect that
to get that far, they have a pretty good idea how things work and
certainly don't deserve to be dismissed out of hand.

GG
 
L

linnix

Glenn said:
linnix wrote:


Now that's just a dumb thing to say. None of the semiconductor
manufacturers that make charging components make batteries either - so
they can't be trusted either?

OK, show me a link to the chip charging NiMH as stated. If they follow
the spec, they can be trusted. Energizer (and others) specs their NiMH
batteries for 1C charging. If you don't follow the manufacturer's
spec, you are guessing.
 
L

linnix

The op did not ask for the "best" method. He asked for
the simplest: "what is the simplest design for a charger?"
His resistor divider is likely simplest - but as you
point out is likely to cook his batteries. A light
bulb in series would be a candidate for simplest, but

A single power resistor is the simplest. You can just touch the
battery terminals with some wires and feel the temperature with your
finger. As long as you choice a current fo 1C (2 to 3 Amps). You can
charge a battery this way in an hour, just don't blame me for burning
down your house or office.
requires a regulated voltage which is not as simple
as the LM317, cap and resistor. And those three parts
work whether the supply is regulated or not, and don't
require a light bulb. You want to add analog to digital
conversion, a thermistor, a micro and who knows what else.
That takes it far away from simplest.

And here it is, for less than $20:
http://linnix.com/charger
 
J

John Doe

Here is the stuff you snipped, from Energizer's Battery Application
Manual for nickel metal hydride (NiMH) batteries.

Page 19: For charging schemes that then rely on a timed "topping'
charge to ensure complete charge, a rate of 0.1C appears to balance
adequate charge input with minimum adverse effects in overcharge.

Page 20: Because there is no sensing of the cell's transition into
overcharge, the charge rate must be kept low (0.1C) to minimize
overcharge-related impact on cell performance and life.

Page 21: The intermediate charge normally consists of a 0.1C charge
for a timed duration selected based on battery pack configuration.

Page 23: However, to avoid adverse effects on cell life and
performance, charging rates must be limited to 0.1C, which
constrains time-based charging to those products where overnight
return of charge is acceptable.

Page 24: Charge rates must also be reduced at low temperatures. An
upper limit of 0.1C is recommended below 15°C.
slow charging would never detect the termination condition

As lasf13 clearly explained, detecting a termination condition is
only necessary when the charge rate is fast enough to build up
pressure when charging is complete.
 
R

Rich Grise

I'm making rechargeable juggling toys out of recycled plastics and we
need a design for a simple charger for there batteries. because of the
design they need to be charged by a plug in there base and they run 3
nimh cells in series. what is the simplest design for a charger?

I am using a voltage divider using resistors at the moment but i
understand there is a technique using zenner diodes to stop the
charging when the cell internal voltage gets up to the value of the
zenner.

any suggestions would be greatly appreciated and very helpful.

The only experiences I've had with NiMHs has been bad.

For one, there's no such thing as a "simple" NiMH charger.
For another, NiMHs have a shelf life of days when they're new,
and when they get to be about a year or so old, they don't even
hold a charge at all, even with a "smart" charger.

I just tossed about $15.00 purchase price (I don't say "worth,"
because they're essentially worth squat) for two sets of four
NiMHs. I still have the charger, but have no idea why I'd want
to keep it - probably because it's touted as being able to do
NiCds as well. :)

But my camera explicitly says "Do Not Use NiCds", (I initially
bought the NiMHs specifically for the camera - got a second set
when I found out how often I had to recharge the worthless things),
so I'll be getting some alkalines for it. A couple bucks every few
years is worth the cost, vs. the PITA that NiMHs turned out to be.

Design them out of consumer items; stick with NiCds, which will
last for years, even if they're a little bit abused, as consumers
tend to do. Or even alkalines, which have to be replaced, but seem
to last forever.

Good Luck!
Rich
 
J

John Woodgate

dated Mon said:
Design them out of consumer items; stick with NiCds, which will last
for years,

Not possible; they are being withdrawn because of the toxicity of
cadmium.
 
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