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Since having a burglary I have installed two 230W PIR lights at the front of my house. They actually look really nice and come on low (and stay on) when it gets dark as well as going fully bright when they detect movement. Im wondering if they are costing me a lot to have on as they seem really hot to touch?

If so.... one thought I had was to replace the bulbs with LED ones I have found on eBay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/R7S-J118-...MD-Warm-or-Cool-White-UK-Seller-/201020506317

Does anyone know if it is infact costing a lot to have the lights on every night? And then also if it is worth changing to the LEDs? (or whether these LED type bulbs are any good)

thanks
 

Harald Kapp

Moderator
Moderator
You obviously need dimmable lamps. Not all LED lamps are dimmable. The ones your link points to say nothing about dimmability. I'd suspect they aren't dimmable, because this is normally an advertised feature (and costs extra).

Does anyone know if it is infact costing a lot to have the lights on every night? And then also if it is worth changing to the LEDs? (or whether these LED type bulbs are any good)
Yes, it costs: Power of lamp*on-time/year (in hours) = energy consumed in Watthours (Wh).
Energy in Wh* price/Wh (or kWh) = yearly cost.
Do the math and compare it to the cost of the LED bulbs. Factor in the limited lifetime of halogen bulbs vs the longevity of LEDs.
 
Thanks for pointing that out, i hadnt considered they would need to be dimmable! I will crunch the numbers and see how the costs work out although the replacement LEDs arent too much so will probably end up getting some. thanks again!
 
You obviously need dimmable lamps. Not all LED lamps are dimmable. The ones your link points to say nothing about dimmability. I'd suspect they aren't dimmable, because this is normally an advertised feature (and costs extra).


Yes, it costs: Power of lamp*on-time/year (in hours) = energy consumed in Watthours (Wh).
Energy in Wh* price/Wh (or kWh) = yearly cost.
Do the math and compare it to the cost of the LED bulbs. Factor in the limited lifetime of halogen bulbs vs the longevity of LEDs.
Could it be possible that the lamps currently in use are dual-filament?
I had them in my living room lamps, the bulb had 3 conductors instead of the standard 2.
 

hevans1944

Hop - AC8NS
I installed a pair of PIR-activated flood lamps above my two-car garage door a few years ago... maybe ten or fifteen years ago. Mine are not dim-able, and I see no reason to want them to be dim-able. I did hate the fact that they would come on whenever the wind blew and waving tree branches would trigger it. Of course it has a sensitivity control, and I could "aim" the PIR sensor up, down, and left to right. But the system is mounted about thirty feet off the ground, so that would mean a lot of trips up and down a ladder to "adjust" it for optimum sensitivity while rejecting passing animals, waving tree branches, and whatever.

It has a mode where you turn it on, then turn it off for about seven seconds, then turn it on again. After playing through this ritual, the light comes on and stays on, effectively by-passing the PIR sensor. We ran it that way for years, in lieu of getting the PIR sensor "adjusted" to our satisfaction. With two 90 W halogen flood lamps, the effect on our monthly electrical bill was not insignificant, especially if we forgot to turn it off at daybreak. Worse, however, was the on/off cycling of the halogen lamps if we forgot to activate the "constant on" feature, which led to rapid failure of the lamps. I would have to climb that damned ladder at least once a year to re-lamp the fixture. The inconvenience and cost of the lamps wore me down. The last time the halogen lamps needed replacement I used LED flood lamps, purchased from a home improvement store for a semi-ridiculous sum of money.

That was two or three years ago. The LED floods are still going strong. I may even operate them with the PID again. It was the best purchase of LEDs I have ever made. Since then, I have almost completely relamped virtually everything in the house with LED lamps. The gas clothes dryer and the gas oven still have incandescent lamps; I have eight 60W, frosted large-globe, incandescent lamps on a wall switch/dimmer flanking the medicine cabinet mirror in the bathroom, just because I like them; and there are some compact fluorescent lamps in a few places.

If you can get LED flood lamps at a reasonable price, even if they are not dim-able, I would replace your halogen lamps. If the LED lamps happen not to be dim-able, I would replace the PIR fixture with one that just does on/off.

BTW, burglars in my neighborhood are not deterred by PIR-activated lights. Most of them "case" the neighborhood, looking for houses whose occupants are not present during daylight hours. We have been burgled twice that way, but have since installed dead-bolt door locks requiring a key to open from either side. That way, if they smash a window to get in, they can't just cart our stuff out through the door.

I am still looking for a self-installed remote-monitoring system that sends intrusion alerts and high-resolution camera feeds to my cell phone. It must not rely on a wired telephone or cable connection, but a dedicated cellular connection would be okay.
 
You will notice that most PIR detectors have a maximum recommended mounting height of around 3 metres from the ground or platform area.
 

hevans1944

Hop - AC8NS
You will notice that most PIR detectors have a maximum recommended mounting height of around 3 metres from the ground or platform area.
Oh, really? Mine is quite old, so whatever instructions came with it are long gone. What is so magical about 3 m height? Do you have a link to a reference? When I Googled "PIR mounting height" I got answers of considerable variance. One manufacturer, Genesis in the UK, recommends 2.5 to 4 meters but also notes this will depend on the elevation angle. So maybe 3 m is a good "average" height. Another, Schneider Electric USA, sells a model that (depending on the lens) can be mounted 50 feet high.

The sensitive range of my PIR (I would guess) extends to at least 30 feet (about 9 meters) if pointed more or less horizontally. When I first installed it, I was concerned about vandals attempting to break into the garage door by kicking out the panels. So, I pointed it straight down. What would normally be a horizontal swath of sensitivity, if pointed outward, is now more or less limited to the width in front of the garage. I have no idea why it would "trip" on nearby trees (which should not be in the field of view with the head pointing down) swaying in the wind, but that is what it does, making it unacceptable to me.

One feature it lacks is an internal (usually red) LED, visible through the translucent (in the visible) plastic Fresnel lens, that would allow me to walk the "field of view" to see where it recognizes motion. Some (maybe all) of my PIR motion sensors for use inside the house have this spiffy feature. After the first burglary I went out and bought some GE wireless PIR motion sensors, a few wireless window sensors, and a small (four channel, I think) receiver at a big-box home improvement store. They all work fairly well together, but the only "alarm" is an audible one from the receiver. I haven't hacked it to see if there are any useful alarm signals available that could perhaps be used to control a cell phone. Our primary burglar alarm is (and always has been) a dog, but that only works if I or my wife am at home. Both times we were burglarized they ignored the dog. Our dog has not been professionally trained, so about all she does is bark. She is warm and fuzzy and a comfort on cold winter evenings however.
 
I am still looking for a self-installed remote-monitoring system that sends intrusion alerts and high-resolution camera feeds to my cell phone. It must not rely on a wired telephone or cable connection, but a dedicated cellular connection would be okay.

Have you ever looked at the offerings from HAI? I think they got bought out by Leviton, but they have systems that can do what you are looking for. http://homeauto.com/
 
Oh, really? Mine is quite old, so whatever instructions came with it are long gone. What is so magical about 3 m height? Do you have a link to a reference? When I Googled "PIR mounting height" I got answers of considerable variance. One manufacturer, Genesis in the UK, recommends 2.5 to 4 meters but also notes this will depend on the elevation angle. So maybe 3 m is a good "average" height. Another, Schneider Electric USA, sells a model that (depending on the lens) can be mounted 50 feet high.

The sensitive range of my PIR (I would guess) extends to at least 30 feet (about 9 meters) if pointed more or less horizontally. When I first installed it, I was concerned about vandals attempting to break into the garage door by kicking out the panels. So, I pointed it straight down. What would normally be a horizontal swath of sensitivity, if pointed outward, is now more or less limited to the width in front of the garage. I have no idea why it would "trip" on nearby trees (which should not be in the field of view with the head pointing down) swaying in the wind, but that is what it does, making it unacceptable to me.

One feature it lacks is an internal (usually red) LED, visible through the translucent (in the visible) plastic Fresnel lens, that would allow me to walk the "field of view" to see where it recognizes motion. Some (maybe all) of my PIR motion sensors for use inside the house have this spiffy feature. After the first burglary I went out and bought some GE wireless PIR motion sensors, a few wireless window sensors, and a small (four channel, I think) receiver at a big-box home improvement store. They all work fairly well together, but the only "alarm" is an audible one from the receiver. I haven't hacked it to see if there are any useful alarm signals available that could perhaps be used to control a cell phone. Our primary burglar alarm is (and always has been) a dog, but that only works if I or my wife am at home. Both times we were burglarized they ignored the dog. Our dog has not been professionally trained, so about all she does is bark. She is warm and fuzzy and a comfort on cold winter evenings however.
 

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Many I googled all the same specs.
Range is around 12 metres and the clipsal unit said if mounting at heights other than this "significantly affected the sensor beam".
So your guess is as good as mine really.
 

hevans1944

Hop - AC8NS
Have you ever looked at the offerings from HAI? I think they got bought out by Leviton, but they have systems that can do what you are looking for. http://homeauto.com/
Yes, I am aware of the existence of cellular devices that attach to home security panels. These are usually installed by a third party as part of a monitoring service such as provided by Alarm Force, ADT, etc. I don't want to subscribe to a monitoring service.

I haven't talked to my Sprint provider yet about purchasing one of the communications terminals that Leviton and probably others sell, but I do plan to look into it. I have a Sprint "hot spot" WiFi hockey puck that I use with my laptop when traveling, for which I pay about 50 USD per month for 6 GB of bandwidth. I can scale that back to about 3 GB and save some money, and it could probably serve to alert me with an SMS text message that an alarm had been tripped. I would then use my smart phone to access cameras on my LAN to see what is going on.

Many I googled all the same specs.
Range is around 12 metres and the clipsal unit said if mounting at heights other than this "significantly affected the sensor beam".
So your guess is as good as mine really.
Yeah, guessing is about what I have to do without that walk-around LED to tell me when the PIR "sees" me. I have also looked into CMOS cameras connected to motion-sensing software that compares successive images. These are way more complicated than a PIR-controlled flood light, and way more expensive too, but the false alarm rate should be near zero.

I have some background in PIR motion sensing. In the 1970s Harshaw Chemical here in Ohio was selling solid-state infrared pyroelectric sensors for reasonable prices. Since we were working with IR optics at the time, I bought one to see how it compared against liquid-nitrogen cooled detectors such as HgCdTe. The pyroelectric devices produce a separation of charges when there is a temperature gradient across the sensor element, virtually identical to what occurs when sound waves impinging on an electret microphone stress the crystal therein. To produce a usable signal requires a transconductance amplifier to convert the miniscule current to a high-level analog signal. The infrared input must also be modulated because a pyroelectric detector does not respond to steady-state illumination..

In a modern PIR motion sensor, two sensors are connected differentially, with each sensor having a slightly different field-of-view provided by an array of infrared transparent Fresnel lenses. Any motion in the field-of-view of both sensors will result in a differential response from the two sensors because of the difference in fields-of-view. I wish I had known this when I first started playing around with the Harshaw sensors. Instead of two sensors, I used one and placed a mechanical optical chopper in front of it. No lens. The chopping frequency was about 100 Hz IIRC. The output of the transconductance amplifier was applied as input to a lock-in amplifier synchronized to the chopper frequency. I pointed the rig across the lab at an open doorway, a distance of perhaps fifty feet (maybe less). Amazing (to me at least) whenever anyone entered the doorway, the lock-in amplifier output indicated their presence... after a short period of time to integrate out noise, the integration time being an adjustable parameter. At the distance I was "testing" the device, I think there was about a ten second delay. Amusing, I thought, but I think I will stick with the traditional liquid-nitrogen cooled IR sensors.

Somewhat later, someone more clever than I figured out the two field-of-view approach with two differentially connected pyroelectric sensors. The rest is history. About this time there was also a lot of interest in mircrobolometers as broadband infrared detectors. Like the pyroelectric sensor, a microbolometer does not require liquid-nitrogen cooling. Single-element microbolometers didn't catch on much, but arrays of microbolometers did. You can purchase un-cooled arrays for imaging in the infrared with quite decent numbers of pixels.
 
I have also looked into CMOS cameras connected to motion-sensing software that compares successive images. These are way more complicated than a PIR-controlled flood light, and way more expensive too, but the false alarm rate should be near zero.
I can tell you the false positive rate is far from 0.
I've got plenty of video of false positive triggered from car headlights, and cloud cover changing the scene lighting.
Then of course, I manage to record a spider making a web in front of the camera which was pretty damn cool...
Of course, the false positive rate for any sensor will depend on application on tuning. I could have turned down the sensitivity, but it would not have captured the more 'subtle' motion from cars pulling up through the window.
 
Since having a burglary I have installed two 230W PIR lights at the front of my house. They actually look really nice and come on low (and stay on) when it gets dark as well as going fully bright when they detect movement. Im wondering if they are costing me a lot to have on as they seem really hot to touch?

If so.... one thought I had was to replace the bulbs with LED ones I have found on eBay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/R7S-J118-...MD-Warm-or-Cool-White-UK-Seller-/201020506317

Does anyone know if it is infact costing a lot to have the lights on every night? And then also if it is worth changing to the LEDs? (or whether these LED type bulbs are any good)

thanks
I think changing to the LEDs is a better way to save money. Some pir LED lights are not expensive, and environmental, like your 230w traditional lights can replace 150w around. Whatdo you think?
 
Since having a burglary I have installed two 230W PIR lights at the front of my house. They actually look really nice and come on low (and stay on) when it gets dark as well as going fully bright when they detect movement. Im wondering if they are costing me a lot to have on as they seem really hot to touch?

If so.... one thought I had was to replace the bulbs with LED ones I have found on eBay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/R7S-J118-...MD-Warm-or-Cool-White-UK-Seller-/201020506317

Does anyone know if it is infact costing a lot to have the lights on every night? And then also if it is worth changing to the LEDs? (or whether these LED type bulbs are any good)

thanks
something like this, 120w/150w
 

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