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recommendation on 2-speed swimming pool pump

T

terri

can anyone recommend a specific type or brand of pump/motor, 1 HP max, for in-ground
swimming pool?

my current understanding is that there are two speed motors that run at low speed
(half power) enough to
circulate water and can be switched to the full speed to run automatic pool sweepers
(like creepy crawly, pool vac)
 
E

Ecnerwal

terri said:
can anyone recommend a specific type or brand of pump/motor, 1 HP max, for

No particular recommendation, but I have one of these (gifted, taken for
project value of the motor (it had been "rebuilt" - impeller glued back
together, and had already fallen apart again) half speed (which is what
it runs) is more like 1/8-1/4 power. Should be common as dirt at pool
suppliers. I don't recall the brand and it's not anywhere near the
computer to go check it. None of them are made all that well from what I
have seen.
 
T

Twayne

In
jamesgangnc said:
One of the pumps on my hot tub is two speed so they do
exist. I would
expect this is accomplished with multiple windings on the
motor so you
would need a more sophisticated switch as well. The hot
tub pumps
seem to be a lot like pool pumps, composite pump bolted on
to the end
of an electric motor. I don't have a clue about brands but
the
electric motor half seems to be regular electric motors
like ge and
dayton.

The ones I've seen are pulse-modulated so the slower it runs without
stalliing the less current it pulls. I've never come across one for an in
ground pool though. I imagine since it has to be continuous duty it's too
hard to dissipate the heat properly unless it's pulse-modulated, something
that's not good to use outdoors under varying loads (filter fresh/needs
bumping/cleaning, etc.). They run awfully hot by design when they operate
continuously in the hot sun. Won't burn skin instantly but keep your hand
there too long and under your hand, insulated will make you pull your hand
away n a hurry!

I've always found Hayward to have good product that outlasts most others,
around here anyway where they only get used 4 to 6 months per year.
 
J

Josepi

After doing some high electric bill complaints for a local electric utility,
many polished pool owners told me they just put cycle timers on their pumps.
A few hours twice or once per day was enough.

Apparently the "chemicals are cheaper" and the low speed may not have enoug
velocity to reach the far corners of the pool anyway.

I was told the savings were significant.


can anyone recommend a specific type or brand of pump/motor, 1 HP max, for
in-ground
swimming pool?

my current understanding is that there are two speed motors that run at low
speed
(half power) enough to
circulate water and can be switched to the full speed to run automatic pool
sweepers
(like creepy crawly, pool vac)
 
J

Josepi

I do not and will not own a pool so I do not know the chemicals used or
needed.

I am only telling you what pool owners have told me.

Pretty hard to run a 2HP pool motor with 7 amps. I doubt inflatables pools
don't count on any of thes items.
..

Every inground pool I've ever seen has a timer. Conventional wisdom
is that you're supposed to run it long enough to circulate water equal
to the pool volume each day. However, I think a lot depends on
climate, usage, etc. I've run one less than that each day with no
problems.
If by chemicals, you mean putting in algaecide or other chemicals to
make up for less circulation and filtering, I doubt it's worth it. A
1hp pool pump only draws about 7 amps. If you run it 8 hours a day,
that's about $75 a month. If you cut it in half, you'd save ~$37 a
month, which doesn't seem like a lot in the pool world. And I don't
know about you, but I'd rather have less chemicals in mine than more.
 
O

Oren

can anyone recommend a specific type or brand of pump/motor, 1 HP max, for in-ground
swimming pool?

my current understanding is that there are two speed motors that run at low speed
(half power) enough to
circulate water and can be switched to the full speed to run automatic pool sweepers
(like creepy crawly, pool vac)

From my utility company web site: (offers $200.00 rebate)*

"While Two-Speed Pumps are adequate for older pools, Variable-Speed
Pumps presently provide the greatest potential for energy savings.
Variable speed pumps allow greater flexibility and can be programmed
for multiple speeds at the desired flow rate for each application."

Here are several good reasons to replace your single-speed pool pump
today:

- Save up to 80% on energy costs associated with pool operation

- Variable speed pumps run cooler and quieter, which helps the pump
last longer

- Filter works more efficiently to keep the pool water more clean,
clear and healthy "

http://www.nvenergy.com/saveenergy/home/rebates/poolpumps.cfm

I would consider the Pentair brand.
 
B

Bob F

terri said:
can anyone recommend a specific type or brand of pump/motor, 1 HP
max, for in-ground swimming pool?

my current understanding is that there are two speed motors that run
at low speed (half power) enough to
circulate water and can be switched to the full speed to run
automatic pool sweepers (like creepy crawly, pool vac)

Spa pumps are frequently 2 speed. The low speed is maybe 1/3 the water flow of
the high speed. A simple 2 throw switch could enable you to switch speeds, if
you don't need that automated.
 
J

Josepi

I found it hard to seperate information when I was a newbie also.

Do you consider yourself a pool, energy, or Usenet expert?

I do know one thing...it is proably cheaper, at the advice of experienced
people, and simple math, to use chemicals in a pool a than to run a 1 HP
pump motor 24/7 with PG&E TOU rates during the day. Even the eight hour peak
usage rate of 58.2 cents /kWh (200% of base consumption) (you understand
energy units and rates, right?) x 8 x 1HP / 80% efficiency

= $134.60 per month. (peak TOU consumption only not including any taxes or
delivery charges)
http://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-6.pdf


How does a few extra chemicals needed fare to shutting the pump down during
peak hours. Time for **YOU** to wake up now and give advice on some energy
stats vs pool chemical stats. Some will be waiting for you expert advice
comparing the two.


The poster asked specifically about a 1HP motor, which is enough for
filtering even a 50,000 gallon pool, hardly an inflatable pool. You
may go back to sleep now. Perhaps if you don't own or know anything
about a pool other than what you've heard, you shouldn't be giving
advice.
 
O

Oren

Do you consider yourself a pool, energy, or Usenet expert?

I don't, but the OP asked about pool pumps and nothing about
chemicals. How did you get to chemicals in a simple thread?
 
J

Josepi

How did you nymshift without being able to read such a simple thread?



I don't, but the OP asked about pool pumps and nothing about
chemicals. How did you get to chemicals in a simple thread?


Do you consider yourself a pool, energy, or Usenet expert?
 
T

The Henchman

"terri" wrote in message
can anyone recommend a specific type or brand of pump/motor, 1 HP max, for
in-ground
swimming pool?

my current understanding is that there are two speed motors that run at low
speed
(half power) enough to
circulate water and can be switched to the full speed to run automatic pool
sweepers
(like creepy crawly, pool vac)

----------


I use a Hayward for an inground 16 x 32 x 9.5 ft pool. It's 230 v x 7.5
amps. Most people in my town use Hayward motors and all three swimming
pool sales and service shops sell them and recommend them.

It's easy to prime, and easy to clean the strainer. My pump runs 24 hours a
day.
 
O

Oren

How did you nymshift without being able to read such a simple thread?



I don't, but the OP asked about pool pumps and nothing about
chemicals. How did you get to chemicals in a simple thread?


Do you consider yourself a pool, energy, or Usenet expert?

J Unit,

Nymshift? You cannot be that dense. I have four brothers named Oren
(one deceased).
 
J

Josepi

Then why use so many different names on Usenet?


Nymshift? You cannot be that dense. I have four brothers named Oren
(one deceased).
 
O

Oren

Then why use so many different names on Usenet?


Nymshift? You cannot be that dense. I have four brothers named Oren
(one deceased).

You speak of things you know nothing about! Nor, have you or anyone
else seen me nymshift.

I'm done with you and your lame troll conversation. I hope others see
you for what you are -- a none help to the OP about pumps.

Someone that answers a question with a question. See ya.
 
J

Josepi

Now can you stay on topic or would you rather be mud slinging?

Try reading the thread first, next time.


You speak of things you know nothing about! Nor, have you or anyone
else seen me nymshift.

I'm done with you and your lame troll conversation. I hope others see
you for what you are -- a none help to the OP about pumps.

Someone that answers a question with a question. See ya.
 
O

Oren

I usually stay away from Hayward products unless nothing else is available.
The pool techs I've talked to say they are not as high quality as some other
brands. But of course, the pool store that sells Hayward says it's the best.
YMMV.

Jim

As a second owner of my home with Hayward pool equipment I can say
the first pump motor lasted at least seven years, before I changed
the motor out with a new Emerson brand motor.

Having seen a few Pentair motors running, noticing the silence and
lack of noise I would suggest the Pentair motors today.

My next one will be Pentair, variable speed.
 
J

Josepi

You obviously consider yourself an expert at pool maintenance, electrical,
motors and Usenet.

You have provided no information , as asked, on pool chemical costs, you
have made assumptions about the OP's whereabouts, profess to be a motor
expert, are currently making you fourth post, under this new name, and do
not understand electrical consumption rates and tried to twist the thread
into your personal victory, instead of offering helpful information to the
OP.

Since you babble a bunch of pool nonsense in an electrical group. We'll just
leave your babble with the opinion of another wannabe troll.



I found it hard to seperate information when I was a newbie also.

Do you consider yourself a pool, energy, or Usenet expert?

No, but like others in this thread, I have owned pools and spas and
maintained them myself, so I have considerable direct experience. I
have a Taylor pool test kit used by professionals, do all my own water
testing and chemical application. You, on the other hand, have never
even owned a pool.


I do know one thing...it is proably cheaper, at the advice of experienced
people, and simple math, to use chemicals in a pool a than to run a 1 HP
pump motor 24/7 with PG&E TOU rates during the day. Even the eight hour
peak
usage rate of 58.2 cents /kWh (200% of base consumption) (you understand
energy units and rates, right?) x 8 x 1HP / 80% efficiency

= $134.60 per month. (peak TOU consumption only not including any taxes
or
delivery charges)http://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-6.pdf


Lets look at all the residential rates PG&E had in effect in June
2010.


http://sheet.zoho.com/view.do?url=http://www.pge.com/tariffs/ResElecCurrent.xls

The highest baseline rate was 12cents kwh, 130% of baseline was 13.5
cents, 200% was 29 cents, 300% and over was 40 cents. The average
rate was 18 cents. So tell us first, where the poster asking for
advice indicated that he was a PG&E customer. Then tell us how that
58 cents is a reasonable estimate for the cost of electricity for a
typical residence in the USA. The rate schedule you used appears to
be targeted at residences with SOLAR POWER. Did the poster say
anything about solar power? Every reasonable poster here knows only
a loon would impute a 58 cents per kwh to a typical residential
electric user in the USA. I can show you widespread rate table from
the DOE that show more typical is 9 cents to 18 cents, which probably
covers 95%+ of us.

Next, the whole point of this thread is that with a two speed pump,
you run it mostly in low speed. It;s rated at 1hp when run at HIGH
speed. At low speed it runs at a fraction of that power and moves the
same amount of water with 40% to 60% less electricity. So, even
using your faulty number of $135 a month, running at low speed the
pump would use about half that, or a mere $70 a month. Now tell us
what kind of additional chemicals would be involved and how much they
cost to do it your idiotic way.




How does a few extra chemicals needed fare to shutting the pump down
during
peak hours. Time for **YOU** to wake up now and give advice on some energy
stats vs pool chemical stats. Some will be waiting for you expert advice
comparing the two.


Show me where I ever said he has to run his pump during peak hours.
In fact, I stated from the very beginning that every pool pump I have
ever seen has been on a timer. Explain to us why he can't use a dual
speed pump and run it in low speed mode when energy rates are low, ie
all night long. You could get 12 hours a day at the offpeak rate,
which would be fine. If more filtering were needed, the pump could
also be run at times when the rates are moderate, not peak.

Explain why as another poster pointed out, some utilities are
offering REBATES to get people to move to multi-speed pumps and in
some places, they are being required on new pools. Show us any
credible pool website that says it's cost effective to rely on
addional chemicals instead of adquate filtration. Everyone
knowledgable about pools that I've ever read always says that proper
pool maintenance begins with adequate circulation. Also tell us how
you'd have a clue as to how what additional chemicals might be needed
to maintain a pool without adequate circulation and how much they
would cost.


And since you dragged PG&E into it, take a look at this gem from the
PG&E website:

http://www.pge.com/myhome/saveenergymoney/rebates/seasonal/poolpumps/

"Swimming Pool Filtration Pumps and Motors.ShareRSSPrintGet a $100
Rebate

Did you know that a single speed pool pump and motor can account for
up to 20% of your home’s total electrical costs? Installing a new
multi-speed pump and motor can save you energy and money. Residential
and multifamily pool owners can get a $100 rebate for replacing an
old, single speed pump and motor with a new qualifying multi-speed
system."





Yet here you are, making a complete ass of yourself. Had enough?
 
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