Maker Pro
Maker Pro

R-56 Communication Site Grounding guidelines question

N

nospam

Not sure if anyone here is familiar with the term
"R-56 Standards & Guidelines". It's a collection of
codes (NEC, etc), that Motorola compiled - along
with a set of best practices - that are recommended
when installing new communications equipment sites.

Having said that, one of the items mentioned is to
have the "neutral bonding conductor" connected to the
grounding strip in the service panel.

Which should in turn be presumably connected to
earth ground.

Now, if you connect neutral to ground, and you have
a "short" condition - aren't you in effect providing
a circuit path to still operate the equipment ? (in
other words, mis wire something to work off hot and
ground, it'll still run - since ground and neutral are
already jumpered together!).

What safety does this provide ?

Or am I missing something ?
 
S

SQLit

nospam said:
Not sure if anyone here is familiar with the term
"R-56 Standards & Guidelines". It's a collection of
codes (NEC, etc), that Motorola compiled - along
with a set of best practices - that are recommended
when installing new communications equipment sites.

Having said that, one of the items mentioned is to
have the "neutral bonding conductor" connected to the
grounding strip in the service panel.

Which should in turn be presumably connected to
earth ground.

Now, if you connect neutral to ground, and you have
a "short" condition - aren't you in effect providing
a circuit path to still operate the equipment ? (in
other words, mis wire something to work off hot and
ground, it'll still run - since ground and neutral are
already jumpered together!).

What safety does this provide ?

Or am I missing something ?

Grounding and bonding is the I believe the largest and hardest section to
understand in the NEC.
The neutral bonding jumper is only done at the service. This is the only
place the neutrals and grounds are common.
With out the bond the neutral is not a grounded conductor.
Try Soars Book on Grounding explanations that are not out in space.
 
W

w_tom

If earthing for 60 hertz power, then length of wire is
mostly irrelevant. But earthing for transient protection
means every foot, every sharp, bend, every splice is a
problem. NEC requirements are only for human safety. For
transistor safety, even those NEC requirements are exceeded.

To better understand the concepts, read two discussions
among engineers in the newsgroup misc.rural
Storm and Lightning damage in the country 28 Jul 2002
Lightning Nightmares!! 10 Aug 2002
http://tinyurl.com/ghgv and http://tinyurl.com/ghgm
 
N

nospam

Hi, thank you for the information.

The explanation of what a neutral/ground bond is not
designed to do (provide protection against miswired equipment)
was helpful.

Here's another "ground" question. If one is installing an
AC power panel, does the neutral/ground bond on that panel
connected to ground - can that same ground be connected to
the transformer ground feeding that power panel ? (a 480 step
down transformer) ?

What's confusing is the "separately derived electrical
system" concept vs. the idea of potential ground loops
(which presumably would not occur if it's the same earth
ground ?). - AND "new service" (ie. a new panel), requires
a "new" separate ground (or at least that's what I was
told).

Essentially, a new AC panel feeding a UPS, feeding a new
room is going in, and we're attempting to get educated
enough to be able to discuss the grounding concepts with
the licensed electricians to convey what we need.

Any info/comments appreciated, thanks!
 
L

Louis Bybee

nospam said:
Not sure if anyone here is familiar with the term
"R-56 Standards & Guidelines". It's a collection of
codes (NEC, etc), that Motorola compiled - along
with a set of best practices - that are recommended
when installing new communications equipment sites.

Having said that, one of the items mentioned is to
have the "neutral bonding conductor" connected to the
grounding strip in the service panel.

Which should in turn be presumably connected to
earth ground.

Now, if you connect neutral to ground, and you have
a "short" condition - aren't you in effect providing
a circuit path to still operate the equipment ? (in
other words, mis wire something to work off hot and
ground, it'll still run - since ground and neutral are
already jumpered together!).

What safety does this provide ?

Or am I missing something ?

Google fails to produce results for the string, "R-56 Standards &
Guidelines". Could you supply a URL where the text could be found?

Thank you.

Louis--
*********************************************
Remove the two fish in address to respond
 
W

w_tom

There is no grounding wire common to both transformer and
building (unless transformer is part of the building).
Utility transformer has its earth ground. The building must
have its own single point earth ground. Wire does connect
that transformer earth ground to building earth ground - the
neutral wire. But wire is an electrical component. Those
grounds - transformer and building - are electrically
different even though they share opposite ends of the same
neutral wire. This electrical difference is why something
called ground loops exist and why each earth ground is a
single point ground.

Implied by what was posted - the UPS is a building wide
system. Therefore the UPS must have its own dedicated
connection to building's single point earth ground. No earth
ground means effective surge protection provided by a building
wide UPS systems would not be effective. That UPS earth
ground can be wired per NEC to breaker box. But that would
compromise the UPS protection which requires a typically 'less
than 10 foot' connection, short, direct, and independent to
earth ground. Requirements that exceed what NEC demands. NEC
requirements are only for human safety. Transistor safety
requires additional considerations beyond what NEC requires;
especially the concept of single point earthing.

Breaker box ground is where utility neutral, household
circuit neutrals (white wires), safety grounds (green or bare
wires), and earth ground wires all typically join. However
that does not mean receptacle safety grounds (connected to
that breaker box) are earth grounded. UPS connected to
breaker box for power might also require a dedicated
connection from UPS direct to earth ground. Distance from UPS
via breaker box to earth ground would typically be too far.
Distance from UPS to earth ground and how that wire is routed
has special requirements beyond what NEC requires.

Notice the difference. Receptacles have a safety ground.
But incoming telephone and CATV must connect to earth ground -
not to safety ground. Even though breaker box does connect to
earth ground, the telephone and CATV must connect to the earth
ground side of that wire; not to breaker box. Yes, receptacle
safety ground, building earth ground, breaker box ground,
transformer earth ground, computer chassis ground, and
computer motherboard ground are interconnected. But each
ground is electrically unique. In this interconnected
circuit, a new ground connection is defined by the purpose of
that ground.

From a building wide perspective, this is what the earth
ground system should look like:

http://www.erico.com/public/library/fep/technotes/tncr002.pdf
or page 14 of
http://www.leminstruments.com/pdf/LEGP.pdf or

http://leminstruments.com/grounding_tutorial/html/index.shtml
[section entitled "Measuring Ground Resistance at Cellular
Sites,Microwave and Radio Towers"]

Another example demonstrating single point earth ground
verse multiple wires entering (and earthed) at different
locations:
http://www.cinergy.com/surge/ttip08.htm

That is the earth ground system. How the AC electric safety
ground connects to the earth ground system is demonstrated in
pictures at:

http://www.pueblo.gsa.gov/cic_text/housing/surge/contractors.htm

Notice that the PC in Figure 1 suffers surge damage if the
phone line on right is far from AC electric on left. Figure 2
also demonstrates how earth ground from all three utilities -
AC electric, CATV, and phone - are best installed to be less
than 10 foot and connected to a single point earth ground.
IOW AC electric safety ground and AC electric neutral wires
connect from breaker box to earth ground via the one earthing
wire that exceeds what NEC requires. Examples: less than 10
feet, no splices, no sharp bends, not inside metallic conduit,
and routed separate from non-earthing wires.

Again, the idea is to earth for both human safety (NEC
requirements) AND for transistor safety. The concepts were
discussed in those above two discussion in misc.rural .
 
W

w_tom

The R-56 concept is about transistor and human safety
grounding. As noted previously, earth ground system connects
to the safety ground system by interconnecting to central
points - breaker box and earth ground rod. The single
interconnection also avoids ground loops. Having every
incoming utility ground separately until each ground wire
meets at the single point ground also helps eliminate ground
loops. Additional posts about these concepts mostly by ham
radio operators:
http://www.harvardrepeater.org/news/lightning.html
 
Top