pcb: a great tool if there ever was one

[samiam]

I downloaded and built pcb (2006* release) from pcb.sourceforge.net on
my FreeBSD system. I was using the pre2005 release for a few years now

WHAT A DIFFERENCE A YEAR MAKES?

Kudos and much props to the developers. The interface on this new
release is easier to navigate and I dont feel like the controls (mouse)
sticks and clings to the screen.

Ill be testing this out more, now that I have a new board to work on.
Also generating output in anything other than png is a great addition
(not that I complained before) and having the zoom in/out feature
readily accessible is another plus.

I am sure theres more, but I havent had a chance to dig into it more.
Again thanks to the developers (you know who you are) for your efforts
in this project.

 

[DJ Delorie]

I downloaded and built pcb (2006* release) from pcb.sourceforge.net on
my FreeBSD system. I was using the pre2005 release for a few years now

WHAT A DIFFERENCE A YEAR MAKES?

The 2006 version is already old. We're working on another snapshot,
but the CVS version is stable if you want to try the absolute latest
features.

Kudos and much props to the developers. The interface on this new
release is easier to navigate and I dont feel like the controls
(mouse) sticks and clings to the screen.

Note that there are two interfaces to try: gtk and lesstif. They each
have their pros and cons, so you'll have to compare them to see which
one you like.

../configure --with-gui=lesstif . . .

Ill be testing this out more, now that I have a new board to work on.
Also generating output in anything other than png is a great addition
(not that I complained before) and having the zoom in/out feature
readily accessible is another plus.

PCB can export ps, eps, gerber, png, gif, and jpg. I use ps for
print, eps for other things (including converting to png sometimes).
EPS can be embedded in openoffice docs.

Zoom in/out should be on the scroll wheel.

I am sure theres more, but I havent had a chance to dig into it
more. Again thanks to the developers (you know who you are) for
your efforts in this project.

You're welcome!

 

[Boris Mohar]

The 2006 version is already old. We're working on another snapshot,
but the CVS version is stable if you want to try the absolute latest
features.


Note that there are two interfaces to try: gtk and lesstif. They each
have their pros and cons, so you'll have to compare them to see which
one you like.

./configure --with-gui=lesstif . . .


PCB can export ps, eps, gerber, png, gif, and jpg. I use ps for
print, eps for other things (including converting to png sometimes).
EPS can be embedded in openoffice docs.

Zoom in/out should be on the scroll wheel.


You're welcome!

What netlist format does it use?

 

[DJ Delorie]

What netlist format does it use?

gschem has multiple netlist formats it can produce. See this old
page: http://www.geda.seul.org/tools/gnetlist/

The one PCB uses looks like this:

HUMID TR504-1 TB500-6
COOL TR503-1 TB500-4
Z4_IO1 SMD402-2 LC401-1 U4-6
Z3_IO2 SMD352-2 LC350-1 U4-4
Z3_IO1 SMD302-2 LC301-1 U4-3
Z4_IO2 SMD452-2 LC450-1 U4-1
Z2_IO1 SMD202-2 LC201-1 U3-6
Z1_IO2 SMD152-2 LC150-1 U3-4
Z1_IO1 SMD102-2 LC101-1 U3-3
Z2_IO2 SMD252-2 LC250-1 U3-1
LINE60HZ U500-23 U500-11 R51-1 U50-4
unnamed_net1 LED50-2 R50-2 U50-1
EGND LC400-2 LC450-2 LC451-2 LC401-2 LC300-2 LC350-2 LC351-2 LC301-2 LC200-2 LC250-2 LC251-2 LC201-2 LC100-2 LC150-2 LC151-2 LC101-2 pad2-1
VBATT C16-2 U10-30 U10-29 U10-28 TPVB-1 CR2-2
+3.3V R450-2 R472-2 R471-2 R470-2 U401-8 R400-2 R401-2 C400-2 U400-7 R350-2 R372-2 R371-2 R370-2 U301-8 R300-2 R301-2 C300-2 U300-7 R250-2 R272-2 R271-2 R270-2 U201-8 R200-2 R201-2 C200-2 U200-7 R150-2 \
R172-2 R171-2 R170-2 U101-8 R100-2 R101-2 C100-2 U100-7 R11-2 R10-2 C18-2 U12-16 C17-2 U11-16 C500-2 U500-7 TP3.3V-1 R51-2 C6-1 U2-2
GND Q491-2 Q490-2 Q391-2 Q390-2 Q291-2 Q290-2 Q191-2 Q190-2 R403-1 R453-1 R456-1 SMD453-1 T451-S U401-4 U402-12 LC451-1 R406-1 R404-1 SMD403-1 T401-S Y401-2 C400-1 U400-5 R303-1 R353-1 R356-1 SMD353-1

 

[anubis]

Kudos and much props to the developers. The interface on this new

release is easier to navigate and I dont feel like the controls (mouse)
sticks and clings to the screen.

But they totally destroyed the "grid" function. If I edit the ~preferences
file and set a grid value of 16mil it doesnt hold between zoom in/zoom out

When I open the .pcb layout file (grid setting IS 16mil). Once I zoom in
and zoom out it goes between 100mil and something like 10 mil. Thats
INSANE

If I save my .pcb layout file and reload it the grid setting of 16mil
is gone PERMANENTLY

Also "Enable Visible Grid" doesnt go into affect. I have to click a few
other silly buttons to see the grid dots that I use to position IC's

All in all I am going back to pcb20050127

 

[DJ Delorie]

When I open the .pcb layout file (grid setting IS 16mil). Once I zoom in
and zoom out it goes between 100mil and something like 10 mil. Thats
INSANE

All in all I am going back to pcb20050127

No, using a VERY OLD version of pcb is insane. You've mentioned this
bug before, and I've told you before that it doesn't happen. Maybe it
happened in the one specific version you insist on using, but it
doesn't happen to anyone else. Please upgrade.

In the current version of pcb, the grid points are plotted at the grid
setting, unless you zoom too far out then they're not plotted at all.

 

[samiam]

When I open the .pcb layout file (grid setting IS 16mil). Once I zoom in

and zoom out it goes between 100mil and something like 10 mil. Thats
INSANE

If I save my .pcb layout file and reload it the grid setting of 16mil
is gone PERMANENTLY

Yeah I noticed this too and wondered why it was happening. When I check
off "Enable Grid" in pcb-20050315 the horizontal/vertical grid lines
appear. When I zoom in or out, the distance between any two lines
(vertical or horizontal) == my grid setting.
Helps me align objects.

However on the new pcb-20060822 this doesnt hold up well. the grid
distance varies with zoom -- and THATS A BAD IDEA. grid distance has
nothing to do with zoom (in or out) and should remain a constant. I dont
know why this was changed

Also "Enable Visible Grid" doesnt go into affect. I have to click a few
other silly buttons to see the grid dots that I use to position IC's

All in all I am going back to pcb20050127

You mean pcb-20050315 dont you?

 

[DJ Delorie]

However on the new pcb-20060822 this doesnt hold up well. the grid
distance varies with zoom -- and THATS A BAD IDEA. grid distance has
nothing to do with zoom (in or out) and should remain a constant. I
dont know why this was changed

Huh? The grid measures the board. A 25 mil grid shows you 25 mils on
the board. Do you really want a SCREEN grid? One that has grid
points at specific screen coordinates, no matter where or how big the
board is?

What the old versions used to do is show you a partial grid, like
every other (or every 10th) grid point, when you zoomed way out.
There was an indicator on the status line that said what "grid scale"
you were seeing. But, the grid was always relative to the board, not
the screen.

 

[samiam]

Huh? The grid measures the board. A 25 mil grid shows you 25 mils on

the board. Do you really want a SCREEN grid? One that has grid
points at specific screen coordinates, no matter where or how big the
board is?

ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.geocities.com/asa386/example1.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/asa386/example2.jpg

Notice those two screen shots. Its the same pcb layout At different
zoom levels in pcb-20050315.tar.gz.

1:1 zoom down to 1:8 ... in each case the distance between any two grid
lines is the same 16 mil I set it up as. Again this comes in real handy
because I like to position my parts relative to each other .. I like it
neat and coordinates matter ... having the grid vary (like with the new
pcb-2006) is a bit of an unwelcome surprise.

I loved being able to put one part at coordinate 100,200 and the next at
coordinate 256,200 following the grid lines. And to be able to zoom up
close to run traces and add larger components following the grid spacing

Dont know if any of this makes sense. But unlike Anubis I use this for
hobby mostly

 

[DJ Delorie]

http://www.geocities.com/asa386/example1.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/asa386/example2.jpg

Notice those two screen shots. Its the same pcb layout At different
zoom levels in pcb-20050315.tar.gz.

In those two screen shots, the grid is a BOARD grid, not a SCREEN
grid. For example, there are two grid units between blue lines, in
both pictures. This is a BOARD grid. This is what PCB does today,
too.

If you had a SCREEN grid, then if you zoom in 1.1x you'd get 1.1x as
many dots between traces.

Next time, please make both screenshots from the same part of the
board ;-)

Also, you can use Ctrl-M to set a "user origin" so you can measure
between things, including grid marks.

 

[samiam]

In those two screen shots, the grid is a BOARD grid, not a SCREEN
grid. For example, there are two grid units between blue lines, in
both pictures. This is a BOARD grid. This is what PCB does today,
too.

DJ I cant really argue with you because
1) you are a developer, you know all the innards that I dont
2) I use PCB to do hobby work and I dont know all the technical jargon,
I just know what helps me make my prototype PCB's

Having said that I can tell you that (unless I mis understood something)
PCB 20060822.tar.gz fails here:

1) when I zoom in then out ... it replaces my grid spacing value and the
space between grid horizontal/vertical lines
2) when I zoom in OR out ... there are no grid lines (horizontal or
vertical)

PCB 2005 0315.tar.gz DOES NOT suffer from the above problems

Trust me on this dude, I opened an old project under both programs a few
days ago. And I retested it before I put up those screen shots.

When Ill get home Ill get you screen shots of 2006 0822

 

[DJ Delorie]

Having said that I can tell you that (unless I misunderstood
something)

Misunderstandings are certainly a viable excuse, for either of us

PCB 20060822.tar.gz fails here:

1) when I zoom in then out ... it replaces my grid spacing value and
the space between grid horizontal/vertical lines
2) when I zoom in OR out ... there are no grid lines (horizontal or
vertical)

I know of a known bug in the gtk GUI code, where there is no grid when
you flip the board over.

PCB 2005 0315.tar.gz DOES NOT suffer from the above problems

20050315 was based on the Xaw (Athena) widgets. It used a board grid.
If you zoomed out far enough, it displayed only every other grid
point, but the snap grid stayed the same.

20060822 is HID-based, so you can choose gtk or lesstif as your GUI.
It also uses a board grid, just like 20050315, but doesn't do the
"every other grid point" thing. If you flip the board over, the gtk
GUI shows no grid at all, a bug we've since fixed. I just downloaded
it and tried 20060822, and it seems to work just fine aside from that
one bug.

For all versions, if you zoom far enough out, it doesn't bother
printing the grid as the dots would just be too close together.

Trust me on this dude, I opened an old project under both programs a
few days ago. And I retested it before I put up those screen shots.

I was confused because your screen shots show the same as what pcb
does now, which IMHO is what it's supposed to do.

When I get home Ill get you screen shots of 2006 0822

Ok.

I'd be interested in comparing with the current CVS, too, as we're
getting close to releasing a new snapshot.